E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
2GB MONEY NEWS
WEDNESDAY, 6 MAY 2020

SUBJECTS: The impact of Coronavirus on the economy and jobs; JobKeeper.

BROOKE CORTE, 2GB MONEY NEWS: Today was an important date for the calendar. Finally some relief for workers and business owners. The Government's JobKeeper payments started to flow from the tax office today. More than 728,000 businesses employing 4.7 million workers have signed up to this program, which is worth $130 billion. But of course, the Government's predictions were that six million workers would qualify for this scheme and there's only two days left to sign up for JobKeeper. So will one million additional workers be registered in, what, the next day and a half or so? Or did more than a few decide to put JobKeeper in the too hard basket? Jim Chalmers is Labor's Shadow Treasury spokesman and he joins me on Money News. Hi, Jim.

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Hi, Brooke. Thanks for having me on your show.

CORTE: Yeah. Thanks for coming on. We've had the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg speak quite a few times about the JobKeeper package in recent weeks to us on Money News. What's your take on it all?

CHALMERS: I think you raised a few interesting points in your introduction just then Brooke. The JobKeeper program is a really good idea and millions of Australian workers will benefit from it. That's a good thing. That's the reason why we called for these wage subsidies in the first place, and why we were very welcoming when the Government had a change of heart and said that they would implement them.

Now the issue is actually in the implementation and you mentioned before that there's something like a million or so fewer people registered for the payments than the Government anticipated. That I think is a reflection that the program's not being implemented very well, that communication has been a bit confusing, and so there are a whole heap of businesses and particularly small businesses who have found it too difficult to make themselves eligible for this scheme. For every dollar that's not spent on this program that the Government anticipated spending, usually saving money is a good thing, but in this case, it has a human face and that's all the workers who are missing out who should be getting paid this JobKeeper payment from today.

CORTE: Government debt is a big consideration and any dollar saved might still not be a bad thing. But look, I've spoken on Money News before about the fact that I think the execution of this has been quite messy. It was large, and the size of it was what we needed but on the ground level it's been very difficult to navigate. But I've also come to accept that maybe that's what should be expected. In the middle of a crisis with something this large and needing to be pushed out so quickly, it was never going to be perfect. Maybe we just live with that?

CHALMERS: Except that so many of these problems have been foreseen. For example, the fact that many small businesses have had to try and pay their staff for a couple of months before the payments start to flow, that's been very difficult. That's a reflection that perhaps the Government was a bit slow off the mark in getting this support into the economy and into the pockets of businesses and their workers. There's one issue there that we warned about at the time.

But the other thing which isn't that will recognised is that when we supported the bills through the Parliament, we gave the Treasurer the powers to fix up these problems as they arise. All that is really required to fix some of the issues that that we warned about which came to fruition has been the Treasurer‘s signature and he's been unwilling to change things to make sure that the people who are intended to be helped, are helped.

The best example of that is businesses with a lot of casual workers. There's something like 1.1 million casuals who are deliberately excluded from the scheme by the Government. They might have been working in the same industry for more than 12 months but if they'd had a different employer, and that's common in construction and in other parts of the economy, they they'll miss out. What we've said to the Government is, this is a good idea and we want people to stay attached to their employers because that will keep the unemployment to shorter than they would be otherwise, they're already going to be too long. But the Government's been unwilling to do that. When the unemployment queues lengthen, people need to understand that part of that is because of a deliberate decision taken by the Government.

CORTE: On design flaws, I think probably one of the worst aspects of it has been that say an employer has had to stump up the bill of $1500 a fortnight for someone they might have previously only paid $100 a fortnight for example. So in terms of the inflated wage bills some people had, there was a design problem with that. But I mean, the former ALP Cabinet Minister Greg Combet, the ACTU boss Sally McManus, they were pretty instrumental in the design of the scheme. So Labor's fingerprints are on this too?

CHALMERS: I wouldn't say they were instrumental in designing it, but I think it's true of them and also true of us in the Federal Labor Party that we want this scheme to succeed. We were calling for a scheme of this nature. We welcomed it when the Government had that change of heart. That doesn't mean we should be silent when there are obvious flaws in what's being rolled out. The numbers which were released today which show that there's a shortfall of something like a million workers, and when combined with the million or so casuals deliberately excluded, I think any objective observer would conclude that this is a good idea which has been badly implemented, badly communicated, and too many people have been left out and left behind.

CORTE: We certainly haven't gotten "mission accomplished" with regards to building this bridge and getting to the other side of the Coronavirus. Yes, we've got the stimulus, but we've got to get all these people back into work. Let's hope that these JobKeeper payments have done in large part the job that they were intended to do. But what's next? What do you think we need to do with regards to employment creation?

CHALMERS: Well, Brooke, I know that you've been watching the economy and the business community for a long time now and you would appreciate that unemployment is notorious for rising quicker than it falls. Whether it's the Reserve Bank Governor or other respected commentators, most people expect that even if some sectors of the economy get up and running again when the place reopens in the coming months, that the recovery will be pretty patchy. There will be workers left behind. We need to care about that. We need to be careful about how this welcome support in the economy is withdrawn and we need to care about what replaces it. In an ideal world there'd be all this private demand which would replace the Government support as it withdraws but the reality is going to be different for different workers, for different businesses, and for different parts of the economy. The Government's got to stay pretty flexible about that. They've got to put a lot of thought and consideration into what the economy looks like at the end of the year. The Prime Minister has said that he expects things to snap back to normal but I think there's a bit of scepticism in the business community and in the broader community that that will be the case.

CORTE: Jim Chalmers, thanks for joining Money News. Appreciate your time today.

CHALMERS: Thanks very much, Brooke.

CORTE: Jim Chalmers, Labor's Shadow Treasury spokesman.

ENDS