JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
4BC DRIVE
MONDAY, 17 JANUARY 2022
SUBJECTS: Josh Frydenberg cooking up a scare campaign to distract from the Morrison Government’s failures on vaccines, rapid tests and supply chains; Morrison Government the second highest taxing Government in thirty years and is collecting $150 billion more in tax than the last Labor Government; Labor would prioritise multinationals paying their fair share of tax.
SCOTT EMERSON, HOST: More than 11 million Australian workers are set to pocket nearly $10 billion in tax cuts in the first half of the year, now that's according to Treasury analysis of the Government's income tax plan. Saying that sentence, I can tell you what it means is there is going to be a federal election this year, as you know, in 2022, and we’re going to see a lot of this. Now Josh Frydenberg, he's going to launch this and say look tax is going to be cut for workers, because this is what happens in election campaigns. It's very much what happened in 2019. Now why is he doing this? Because Josh Frydenberg, he wants to steer the political contest back to a traditional election on taxes and cost of living, and away from those issues like the Government's management of vaccine boosters and the rapid antigen test shortage. It's not unexpected and you'll see a lot more of it - the issues of tax, who's going to be best at managing the economy, who's going to cost you the most if they are elected at the 2022 election. Jim Chalmers is the Shadow Treasurer and Member for Rankin. He joins me on the line now. Jim, thanks for being on 4BC Drive.
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Thanks for having me back on the show, Scott.
EMERSON: Well look, as I said, this is not unexpected that the Treasurer is going to release these figures - get Treasury to do it - and make these claims about tax cuts. Now, first off, do you believe these numbers that the Treasurer is saying?
CHALMERS: There's tax relief that's been legislated which Labor voted for in the parliament, so if he wants a little pat on the back for that then that's a bit different to telling the truth about what the tax situation is in this country. Even with those tax cuts, which was supported by both parties in the parliament, this Government is actually taxing significantly more than Labor was the last time we were in office. It sounds like Josh Frydenberg has been spending his summer cooking up another dishonest scare campaign rather than telling the truth about tax. I think Australians would prefer it if he did his job, which is to focus on getting those rapid antigen tests, dealing with the fact that people can't buy fresh food in our supermarkets, and all the economic consequences that those failures are bringing us. He would better spend his time doing his job than cooking up another scare campaign based on dishonesty.
EMERSON: Well you say cooking up another scare campaign here, there are these figures coming from Treasury. The Morrison Government is not unique in this. I've been around politics a long time, both sides of politics do this when they're in office. They get Treasury to analyse their figures and they get Treasury to analyse any alternative proposals, which means that, basically, the Opposition's. So are you questioning Treasury's numbers?
CHALMERS:No, I'm saying that the tax cuts that the Treasurer is referring to today were supported and voted for by both sides of the parliament and passed some time ago. I'm not contesting that tax cuts were legislated in recent years. What I'm contesting is this ridiculous scare campaign, very predictable thing, which says that the Government is somehow taxing less than Labor was last time it was in office. It's complete rubbish and we know it's rubbish because Josh Frydenberg - in Table E3 on page 334 and 335 of his own Budget update - makes it very clear that taxes have been higher every year under this Government than what they inherited from Labor in 2013. Tax as a proportion of the economy is much higher now on an average than it was under Labor. The two highest taxing governments of the last 30 years have both been Liberal National governments - Scott Morrison's and John Howard's. This Government is collecting an extra $150 billion in tax this year then Labor collected in its last year in office. So if we want to have an argument about tax, then let's use the facts in Josh Frydenberg's own Budget to point out that the rhetoric that he likes to trot out as a distraction from his failures on rapid tests, and groceries, and the pandemic more broadly. Let's actually focus on the facts, and the facts tell a very different story to what Josh Frydenberg is saying today.
EMERSON: I'm talking to federal Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. Alright Jim, this is an election year. If Labor does get into power, are you ruling out any increased or new taxes under an Albanese Government?
CHALMERS: We've said for some time Scott, that we wouldn't be taking the same set of tax increases to the next election that we took to the last election. We've made it really clear in areas like negative gearing, and franking credits and the like, that we wouldn't be going down that path. There is a trillion dollars of debt in the Budget that whoever wins this next election will have to deal with at some stage, and we've said that we've got three priorities to deal with that. First of all, to make meaningful investments where you get value for money in terms of economic growth. That's the first way. The second way, is to crack down on the quite extreme rorts and waste and mismanagement that have been uncovered over the last couple of years in the Budget. I can go through those but I think your listeners are aware of the kind of sports rorts and all the other rorts that we've seen. And then thirdly, there might be opportunities in areas like multinational taxes, to make sure that multinational corporations pay their fair share in Australia. And there's been some really welcome international developments there that Australia should be part of. So those are our priorities when it comes to dealing with the fact that a new government would inherit a trillion dollars in debt with barely anything to show for it from this Government that likes to pretend they're good at managing the economy when the facts tell a very different story.
EMERSON: Well, I hear that the terminology you’re using, your priorities, but putting aside those multinational taxes you just mentioned there that you might do, are you ruling out all other increased or new taxes for other Australians out there, apart from those multinational taxes?
CHALMERS: We're ruling out the those taxes that Josh Frydenberg's been banging on about today.
EMERSON: Yeah, but I'm not asking you about that. I'm saying are you ruling out. Are you still saying that there will be, Labor coming into the election or in an Albanese Government, there will possibly be new taxes, increased taxes, that you haven't detailed so far?
CHALMERS: No, I'm making it very clear that in areas like multinational taxes we will look for an opportunity…
EMERSON: Apart from that. I'm sorry Jim, I'm excluding that. Apart from that, will there be other new taxes out there, increased taxes?
CHALMERS: I'm not going to go through every single tax in the Budget.
EMERSON: No, I'm saying what Labor will do.
CHALMERS: Labor will focus on multinational taxes and making them fairer. We won't be doing negative gearing, we won't be doing franking credits, those other examples that I've already given you, I couldn't be clearer than that.
EMERSON: But there could be other taxes still to be to be announced by Labor?
CHALMERS: This Government right now has made tax changes that they didn't flag at the election. No responsible Government says that there will never be at some future point any changes to the tax system, we've said that we might be making changes in areas like multinational corporations. That's what a responsible Government does.
EMERSON: I've seen, say at the state level here, the Palaszczuk Government, they've been asked that question plenty times and they'll say no new or increased taxes. They'd been able to say that at an election campaign, why can't the federal Labor do that?
CHALMERS: Because I've made it clear that we would be looking for ways to change taxes like multinational taxes, so I couldn't give you that blanket commitment Scott, because we do intend to see if there are ways to get multinational corporations to pay their fair share of tax. I've said it three or four times now, I couldn't be clearer, not prepared to give that blanket commitment for that very reason. The tax changes that the Government is accusing us of and saying that we will do after the election, we've been very clear - Anthony Albanese has and other colleagues and I have for the last couple of years - that we won't take the same set of tax policies to this election that we took to the last one.
EMERSON: Alright Jim Chalmers, good to have you on the show. I'm sure we'll have you on a lot this year in an election year.
CHALMERS: Look forward to it Scott, all the best.
ENDS
