JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
 

 
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
4BC DRIVE
MONDAY, 31 JANUARY 2022

SUBJECTS: Newspoll; Budget will be all about rorts, waste and scare campaigns because that’s what this decade-long government has been reduced to; Budget repair is about bang for buck for taxpayers dollars; $16 billion in secret rorts before the election and secret cuts after it; Labor’s priority is ending the rorts and waste and multinationals paying their fair share of tax; The only tax hike in the Budget is from the current government.   

SCOTT EMERSON, HOST: Well, alarm bells would be ringing within the Coalition ranks, as support for the Government slumps to its lowest levels since the 2018 leadership spill. In the first Newspoll of 2022, the LNP has fallen behind Labor for the first time as a party deemed better at leading Australia's recovery out of COVID. And support for Scott Morrison as preferred PM has also tumbled just months out from the election, with Anthony Albanese closing the gap to just two points. Labor's primary vote lifted three points to 41%, while the Coalition dropped two points to 34%. So, on a two-party preferred basis, Labor is now leading 56% to 44%. Jim Chalmers is the Shadow Treasurer and Labor's Member for Rankin, and he's on the line now. Jim, thanks for being on the show.

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Good afternoon Scott, thanks for having me back.

EMERSON: Now, look, I know what happened in 2019. So I'm very much aware of the polls there.

CHALMERS: As am I.

(LAUGHTER)

EMERSON: And I'm sure we're going to hear coming out of your lips at some point - the only poll that counts is on the day - but look, let's be realistic about this, you'd prefer to see the polls where they are for you rather than for the Coalition at the moment?

CHALMERS: Sure, but I think there is a useful bit of perspective from last time. The polls couldn't predict the outcome of the last election four days out so I don't know that we can predict the outcome of the next election four months out. We don't take even good polls like this, even polls that give people a bit of encouragement, you don't get carried away by it. As you would know from your time on the other side of the microphone, things can change quickly. I think the other important thing Scott, is even before we saw this poll, it's pretty clear just moving about our communities that people are not real happy with the Prime Minister. In my view, they're kind of working him out. They know that he doesn't take responsibility, he goes missing when they need him, and he makes all kinds of announcements and doesn't follow through. So it's not a big surprise to see these sorts of numbers, I think people are kind of working him out.

EMERSON: You make that point Jim Chalmers, that it's four months out from the election - most people seem to be expecting, I've tipped either May 14 on May 21 - so about four months out. But in between then, we do have a federal Budget handed down on March the 29th. Look, what are you expecting to come out of that Budget? This covers all political parties - once you're in government you do have the Treasury to be able to help you in terms of making announcements out there, announcing policies - that is a massive advantage for whichever government is in power at the time, whatever political party that can be. What do you expect will come out on March the 29th?

CHALMERS: I think it is a big advantage, I think you're right, being the incumbent matters. If you think about what the Budget can't be about - it can't be about the economy the last eight or nine years, because we've had all this wage stagnation, and a trillion dollars in debt with not enough to show for it, and all the rest of it. So it can't really be about that. It can't really be about the economy now, because your listeners would understand that the costs of living are going through the roof while people's real wages are going backwards. It can't be about the management of the pandemic, because not ordering enough rapid tests, and not recognising that you can't have a healthy economy without healthy people, has meant that the pandemic has been mismanaged, and that's why we've had for a lot of people this summer from hell. And it can't be about a plan for the future because they don't have one. Once you rule out all those kinds of things, I think what you can expect in the Budget is a lot of slush funds, a lot of pork barrelling, and a lot of scare campaigns, because after almost a decade in office that's basically what this Government's reduced to.

EMERSON: Clear that up for me. Look, I hear what you're saying there, and I probably didn't expect anything different from you Jim Chalmers in terms of the Budget here. But I saw your leader, Anthony Albanese, being interviewed at the weekend and he pointed out a series of things that he said he wanted to spend money on, but then he said he wanted to go into Budget repair. I couldn't understand the two elements of that. How do you spend more money but then go into budget repair at the same time?

CHALMERS: Because Budget repair is as much about how you spend the money as it is how much money you spend. One of the reasons why the current Budget is broken is not just the trillion dollars in debt, though that's important. It's not just the 40 years or so of deficits that the government expects, that's important too. What matters, I think, most of all, is how you spend that money, whether or not you have something to show for it. What Anthony has been saying, what I've been saying, Katy Gallagher and other colleagues - is that part of repairing the Budget is making sure that when you are making investments in the health system, very important, in free TAFE, in cleaner and cheaper energy, in the university system and training to address these skill shortages - what you're really looking for is some genuine bang for buck. That's why we want to have a conversation around the Budget and around the election about responsible economic management because responsible economic management isn't salting away $16 billion in money to spray around marginal seats to get you through an election, responsible economic management is investing in cheaper energy; it’s investing in human capital; it’s investing in the NBN, in the work from home economy. All these sorts of things that we've been talking about. You repair the Budget by getting better bang for buck, and that's what we'll do.

EMERSON: We mentioned that $16 billion there Jim Chalmers, are you saying that when the Government details how that money will be spent, will Labor say, look, we would take that money back if we were in office? Or will you just let that money just stay where the Government allocates it to?

CHALMERS: Well, let's see what they announce.

EMERSON: So you're not ruling that out?

CHALMERS: Well, we don't know what they're proposing to do with it - that's our criticism of this situation. There's $16 billion in spending, $16 billion potentially in rorts before the election, and they say there'll be cuts after the election and won't tell us what they are. Once we see what the $16 billion is for we'll come to a view on it. Of course we've got an open mind to that. We need to be spending this money as responsibly as we can. Instead, we've had the sports rorts, we've had the car park rorts, we've had tens of billions of dollars for JobKeeper for companies that were already profitable. Obviously, we need to be much more responsible than that. Obviously, we need to look at every single rort and every bit of waste that's in the Budget and see whether we can spend that money more effectively. If you ask all of the independent, nonpartisan observers of the Budget, what they say is one of the big changes in the last eight or nine years of this Government is just how much rorting and how much waste is in the Budget. I think any responsible government - of whatever political persuasion - I think the onus is on them to see whether or not that money can be spent more effectively, and if it can't then it should be going towards repairing the Budget.

EMERSON: I'm talking to the federal Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. Now, last time I had you on the show Jim, I asked you about taxes about whether Labor would increase taxes. You did mention about multinational companies, but you didn't rule out in regards to the other areas. Now, I did see that Anthony Albanese - also at the weekend - made it very clear, he said putting aside the multinationals, no increased taxes. Can I just confirm that with you? No new or increased taxes apart from multinationals?

CHALMERS: Anthony and I have been saying exactly the same thing. When we get asked about tax changes, we point to the changes for multinationals. The existing government, right now, the idea that they wouldn't also be asking multinationals to pay their fair share of tax - when we've got all these useful, welcome, global developments along those lines - is laughable. That's our priority. That's what Anthony says, that's what I’ve said. In terms of taxes that individuals pay, the only tax hike in the Budget at the moment is from the current government. They will increase taxes on the 1st of July, a few weeks after the next election, by abolishing the low and middle income tax offset. So, if you want to talk about tax changes, I'm happy to have a conversation about tax. I've said my priority is making multinationals pay their fair share.

EMERSON: Jim Chalmers, can I just clarify again. We've talked about multinationals. Can I just clarify again, I heard Anthony Albanese say no increased taxes apart from multinationals. Can you just confirm that again with me now? No increased taxes under Labor?

CHALMERS: That is obviously our policy Scott, and I've said that a few times. Anthony Albanese and I have been saying exactly the same thing. Our priority in taxes is in multinationals, the other mob have got a tax hike on ordinary working people when they abolish the low and middle income tax offset.

EMERSON: And what about touching super? One of our listeners has just text in here, what about super? Will Labor change the super arrangements?

CHALMERS: I get asked this a lot too Scott, because of the policies we took to the last election. I'm happy to tell your listener that we won't be taking those same policies on super to this election that we took to the last one. More broadly, in case you want to go through everything from earlier elections, which is obviously up to you, no worries…

EMERSON: No franking credits, family trusts, all those areas?

CHALMERS: …we've been saying now for a couple of years that we're not taking an identical set of tax policies to this election that we took to the last one. We've made our view really clear in a couple of those most controversial examples.

EMERSON: Alright Jim Chalmers, great to have you on my show. I'm sure we'll get you back sometime in the next four months.

CHALMERS: Appreciate it Scott, all the best.

ENDS