E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC ADELAIDE DRIVE
THURSDAY, 23 JULY 2020
 
SUBJECTS: Budget Update; JobKeeper; JobSeeker. 
 
JULES SCHILLER, HOST: Jim Chalmers is the Federal Shadow Treasurer and he described the announcement today something more akin to a pamphlet. He joins me now. Welcome Jim.
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Thanks for having me on the show.
 
SCHILLER: Jim, the Government has saved 700,000 jobs while maintaining AAA credit rating. Surely you have to give them kudos for that?
 
CHALMERS: We've said that the JobKeeper program, the wage subsidies that Labor first proposed are obviously a really important way that we're keeping hundreds of thousands of Australians attached to their employer. That's a good thing, we've said that all along. We've got issues with people who are left out and left behind from that program. But overwhelmingly that kind of intervention in the economy is really important when you see the sorts of numbers that we saw today.
 
SCHILLER: You said the Government should have done a more detailed announcement today, but is that really possible with the situation in Melbourne with COVID-19? I mean it's pretty hard to do any forecasting presently isn't it?
 
CHALMERS: It's always difficult to do forecasting but that's not an excuse not to do it. The problem with today was that it was delayed twice, the Government made all kinds of excuses and then when they finally produced what was supposed to be a budget update only provided one forward year and one backward year which is well short of what people need to understand what's happening in this recession, particularly as it relates to jobs. The most confronting number in what was released today was the Government's expectation that 240,000 additional Australians will lose their job between now and Christmas. The disappointing thing about the update was the Government pointed that out without saying what they'd do to address that problem.
 
SCHILLER: What do you think they should do, Jim Chalmers?
 
CHALMERS: They need a comprehensive plan for jobs and we've made some suggestions about what that plan could include. I'll give you a couple of examples. First of all, investment in public housing is a good one because it's labour intensive, there are lots of jobs associated with it, and you're building something with a lasting benefit for the most vulnerable people. So that ticks a lot of boxes. The Government should be considering something like that. They also need to settle an energy policy. When I talk to business right around Australia, including in Adelaide, they say that the big handbrake on business investment which was a big problem before this virus is that there's no energy policy certainty. We need to get business cleaner and cheaper energy that they can rely on so that they can make confident decisions to invest, and we offered to work with the Government on that. 
 
SCHILLER: How will that create jobs?
 
CHALMERS: Businesses are reluctant to invest without knowing what the rules of the road are in energy policy. They say that publicly and privately that that's a big problem. It's going to handbrake on growth because businesses don't know what Governments are going to do next when it comes to energy. We've offered to work with Scott Morrison and the Government to try and settle that. The business community is very keen for us to do that. They think if they get that certainty, that cheaper and cleaner energy, they'll be more likely to invest, and investment is good for jobs.
 
SCHILLER: What do you say though, Jim Chalmers, that it is a tragedy that 240,000 people are perhaps looking at losing their employment, but no policy from any party could prevent mass job losses from happening because of this pandemic?
 
CHALMERS: I don't believe in raising the white flag on unemployment. I don't think the Government should just throw their hands in the air and say look, the economy's really grim but we don't have a plan to deal with it. I think they owe, not just those 240,000 Australians but the entire country, they owe them a plan for what they are going to do about jobs. They extended a couple of those programs earlier in the week, JobKeeper and JobSeeker. We said that was better than just turning off the tap in September, which is what the Prime Minister originally wanted to do. That's not a comprehensive plan for jobs. People need to know where the jobs are going to come from. Today was a big opportunity for the Government to come up with one, and they missed that opportunity.
 
SCHILLER: Would Labor be prepared to go into more debt to save more jobs?
 
CHALMERS: You need to make sure that whatever you're doing is responsive to what's happening in the economy. If the economy was to turn down further, and it was clear that there was a need for additional support in the economy, then clearly the priority has to be jobs. But you need to make sure that any additional dollar that you're borrowing for that purpose is really effective and the measure of effectiveness is whether it prevents those unemployment queues from becoming unnecessarily long.
 
SCHILLER: What do you think about the JobSeeker allowance at the moment? There's been a lot of debate - I mean Scott Morrison did not rule out it going back to the Newstart rate. Where do you think JobSeeker should land?
 
CHALMERS: A couple things about that. JobSeeker is obviously really important. It's good to see it extended in some form beyond that hard September snapback that was originally planned. That's a good thing. But it's only been extended until Christmas. There's a lot of uncertainty in the community. Heaps more people are on unemployment benefits at the moment because of this first recession in three decades. We'd like to give those people more certainly. I think the best way to do that is to lock in a permanent increase to the old $40 a day rate - that was the old Newstart rate. The reason we haven't nominated a number is because the Government has said that they will tweak the arrangements again closer to Christmas. We don't know what rate we would inherit if we were an incoming Government. We don't have access to the best Treasury advice about what it would cost. So we've been campaigning hard for the Government to lock in a change without nominating a number.
 
SCHILLER: Can you nominate a ballpark number though, Jim Chalmers?
 
CHALMERS: We've said that $40 a day is not enough to look for a job on, or support yourself on. That's been obvious for some time. That's not just the point we've made a lot of - 
 
SCHILLER: John Howard has made that point.
 
CHALMERS: - John Howard, the Business Council, ACOSS, and others have all made that point. It's a point well made. $40 a day is not enough. The reason we haven't said it should be this many dollars or that the dollars is because we don't know the budget situation that we will inherit. We don't know the Treasury advice about the optimal number. We don't know what the Government's going to do closer to Christmas. We need to know those sorts of things before we come up with a position closer to the election.
 
SCHILLER: Jim Chalmers there's been a lot of discussion about insecure work and how the pandemic is really exposing that - people working between different industries, especially in the age care industry. Do you think that the pandemic has sort of highlighted an industrial relations problem in Australia? And should the Morison Government look at ways of fixing it?
 
CHALMERS: Absolutely. The best way to think about what's happening in the workforce is a lot of these problems which have become really apparent during this recession didn't just pop up out of nowhere because of the health crisis. What we've seen is the acceleration or the exacerbation of a lot of things that were worrying us about the workforce and the labour market even before any of us had ever heard of coronavirus. Insecure work is the most important part of that. If people can't get the hours they need, if they can't get the security they need, that flows through to all sorts of things like housing, like sick leave, all kinds of associated issues. If the Government says they want to look at industrial relations that is the most important area to look at, because people who were already insecure at work are only more so now as a consequence of this recession.
 
SCHILLER: Just going to the text line, lots of questions coming through for you Jim Chalmers. I'll just pose a couple before you have to leave us. Leigh has called in to say that you didn't say whether you would allow more debt or how you would repay the debt?
 
CHALMERS: I said that if the economy turns down, then that means there needs to be more support. Inevitably that comes with a price tag and that means more debt that needs to be repaid. The best way to fix the budget and the best way to repay the debt is to grow the economy strongly. That's a point that others have made. Experts like Deloitte Access Economics and the rest of them have said, the worst thing for the budget is if we have a longer deeper downturn. Our first priority is to deal with that, deal with jobs and growth in the economy. If there's additional debt that needs to be repaid, repay that in a sensible way over time, and don't ask the most vulnerable people to carry the can for that.
 
SCHILLER: Jim Chalmers, Shadow Treasurer, thanks for your time on a very busy day I'd imagine for you. 
 
CHALMERS: I appreciate the chat Jules, thank you. 
 
ENDS