E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING
THURSDAY, 12 MARCH 2020

SUBJECTS: The Government’s Economic Stimulus Package; Travel bans; Event cancellations.

PATRICIA KARVELAS, ABC: Labor’s Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers joins me now - Jim Chalmers welcome.

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Hi Patricia.

KARVELAS: Will you vote for the entire stimulus package when Parliament returns? No amendments, as it is?

CHALMERS: That's our inclination, Patricia. We haven't seen the legislation yet but we've said all day today and in advance of today that we want to be as supportive, as responsible, and constructive as possible. We've offered to help with legislation that we support and to expedite that through the Parliament. Your viewers can be confident that we'll do the right, responsible and constructive thing and that means getting this support which has been promised today by the Government out the door and into the hands of families and businesses as soon as possible.

KARVELAS: Do you think it will be enough to avoid a recession?

CHALMERS: That remains to be seen, Patricia. There wasn't much detail released today in terms of what the Government is expecting to happen in the economy over the next few months. It remains to be seen whether it will be enough or whether it will be deployed fast enough. One of the commitments that the Government should be making is that if it becomes obvious that this is insufficient that the Government will need to come back to the table and do more.

KARVELAS: Well, they have said that they are reviewing this. In fact, they've been pretty upfront about that. So do you expect a second package will be necessary?

CHALMERS: Again it does remain to be seen whether it's enough and whether it's deployed fast enough. There are two important issues here; the quantum of the package, but also how quickly it can be deployed into the economy. Both of those things matter a great deal. Those are really the two key reasons why the stimulus deployed during the Global Financial Crisis was so successful. We got both of those things right. It remains to be seen whether they've got those things right this time around.

KARVELAS: What would you have done differently, Jim Chalmers?

CHALMERS: Our job is really not to quibble with what's been put out there. We're supportive of what the Government's proposed. We also have a responsibility to identify where we do have concerns or where there might be gaps. It's self-evident that most Australians, won't be receiving direct support in this package today. There are some issues around what they're proposing to do with casual workers who don't have access to paid sick leave. We're worried that it will be a deterrent for people to get into the Newstart system which is the way that the Government is proposing to deal with this. We want to make sure that workers don't have to decide between doing the right thing by their colleagues and being able to feed themselves and live. There's no real guarantee that the money which is being granted to businesses will go towards maintaining the workforce. We don't have a lot of detail about the billion dollar fund, which is something that you identified earlier.

KARVELAS: That is something I will ask you about but just on businesses and the requirement to keep staff on. Do you think it should be tied money? This should be an actual agreement that businesses have to enter into if they are to get the money?

CHALMERS: Patricia, it's one thing to give businesses money and clearly a lot of employers need cash flow assistance, a lot of people in business are doing it very tough. We don't quibble with supporting business through this difficult period but there is no guarantee that that will go towards maintaining the workforce. There are already worrying signs about layoffs in the economy and so that's one of the things that we want to weigh up. If there's ways that we can help the Government make that program more successful and better for workers then we'll put proposals forward. We don't want to stand in the way of what are otherwise welcome announcements today. Our priority is to get them into the economy as soon as possible and make sure they're implemented properly.

KARVELAS: You mentioned not everyone will get essentially a cheque and in fact, that was the point that Mathias Cormann just made with me, that not everyone will get a cheque. In fact, he critiqued the fact that too many people got the cheque and theirs is more targeted. What do you make of that critique? Because they have got a way of getting $750 into people's pockets, people they say will actually go out and spend the money.

CHALMERS: It's the same mechanism that we used in the first tranche of stimulus during the Global Financial Crisis. I think it's very disappointing that Mathias Cormann, Frydenberg and Morrison, spend so much time trying to win an argument from a decade ago. Australians should be proud of what we achieved together under Labor during that period. It was remarkably successful and a lot of what the Government is proposing today has its origins in that period, whether it be getting cash into the hands of households or whether it be the instant asset write off which is a Labor policy. The Government should spend less time trying to differentiate from Labor and more time admitting that what they've done today is a big concession that there is a role for stimulus in the economy and there is a role for cash payments in the economy and they've been wrong to try and diminish that achievement for much of the last decade.

KARVELAS: The Australian share market is down today. What do you attribute that to? Did you expect a bounce from the stimulus package? What's your analysis of what we're seeing here?

CHALMERS: It's pretty difficult to predict the movements in the stock market at the moment. It has been extremely volatile, that's a point that Mathias Cormann made that I agree with. But there's a broader challenge here and the stock market is part of it. We've got a big challenge with business confidence and consumer confidence. It wasn't especially strong before the virus showed up and it's especially weak now. One of the first tasks of this stimulus package and one of the reasons why we are being so supportive, constructive and responsible is because we need to put a floor under confidence. We need to make sure that this package of stimulus is implemented properly and that the money gets out the door as soon as possible so that people can start to spend in the economy with more confidence than they've had not just in the last couple of months, but the last couple of years.

KARVELAS: You've been making the political point about the surplus the Government promised. You talk about the Government quibbling or making political points about the way Labor behaved 10 years ago. Does that mean now you have to abandon the political mileage about the fact that they won't be delivering a surplus? Because clearly they can't deliver a surplus given Coronavirus.

CHALMERS: The surplus is gone, Patricia. We haven't been going out of our way to make this point. We've been answering questions about it and we've been pointing out where the Government's failed its own tests but all along we've been saying that the highest priority should be supporting workers, employers and communities through a tough period. That's been our position and we welcome the Government coming to our position on stimulus.

KARVELAS: So it doesn't matter that they've abandoned the surplus?

CHALMERS: Of course it matters.

KARVELAS: Why does it matter?

CHALMERS: It matters that they failed the test that they set for themselves, Patricia. They said this was their primary promise that we were already back in the black and that the economy was back on track. Neither of those things have turned out to be true and they need to be held accountable for breaking that promise. But that's not our highest priority here and we've said this repeatedly. The highest priority is to support workers and employers in the economy and to support communities. When the Government has done that, come around to our view that there's a role for stimulus, that there's a role for cash payments, then obviously we're going to support that. Our highest priority is supporting workers, businesses and communities. The other issue around the surplus, that's their test that they failed. We didn't print and sell the mugs saying the budget was back in black. That was something they did and they'll be held accountable for it.

KARVELAS: There's also this one billion dollar fund to support Australia's tourism sector. I did ask Mathias Cormann specifically about this and the potential pork barrelling. I don't think he like that question or the way I framed it. Is that something you're concerned about?

CHALMERS: We need to get support to businesses who are most affected, including in tourism, but not just tourism. The objective is probably sound but we need to hear a bit more about how the fund will operate and how the money will be spent from the fund. If we're given assurances that that will all be above board then we'll be looking to be supportive there too.

KARVELAS: Now, the Government is trying to get some advice on the potential of banning travel from Europe. Is that a good idea, especially after Donald Trump's announcement that the United States is going down this road?

CHALMERS: As always, Patricia, we need to rely on the medical advice. I don't think it's helpful for people to speculate about those kind of bans. One of the things that Australia has been relatively good at over the difficulties of the last few weeks is we've got a first class Chief Medical Officer who works very closely with the medical officers of the States and Territories. We should take his advice very seriously and we should base our decisions on it.

KARVELAS: Should Australia immediately close schools and cancel mass events? Because Bill Shorten, who is, of course, one of your frontbench colleagues, former leader, says that that's a good idea. Do you agree?

CHALMERS: That's something that the medical professionals, the Chief Medical Officer and his colleagues will be considering. It's a really important consideration. I'm prepared to listen to the advice that they provide and we should act on that advice, whether it's on travel bans, whether it's on closures, whether it's on sporting events. All these things are really important. We all get asked about it from time to time, out and about in our communities. It's something that the Australian people are very attentive to and my message to them, the same as all of my colleagues, is that when we get that medical advice we should act on it. That's how we make the best decisions.

KARVELAS: Bill Shorten's going further, he's saying, hang on a minute when you look around the world, there is some evidence that this stuff works. Look at China, it clearly works. Should we be making sure we do it sooner rather than later?

CHALMERS: I agree that we should be looking at the evidence and we should be relying on the advice. I know that the Chief Medical Officer and his colleagues deal with these issues every day. If they think that some of these steps need to be taken at some point in the future, then we should back that in.

KARVELAS: Thanks so much for joining us.

CHALMERS: Thanks, Patricia.

ENDS