JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
 

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING
MONDAY, 14 MARCH 2022

SUBJECTS: Costs of living skyrocketing under Scott Morrison while real wages go backwards; Labor’s economic plan, excises.
 
GREG JENNETT, HOST: Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers joins us now from Brisbane. Welcome back, Jim. I note that Kiwi motorists have discovered from Jacinda Ardern, their Prime Minister this afternoon, that they're in for a 25 cent a litre cut in excise at least temporarily. If it's good enough for Kiwis, why not for Australians? 

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Good afternoon, Greg. Let's see what the Government proposes in the Budget. The most important thing for us is to make sure, as the alternative government, that we are doing the right thing by working families, but also the right thing by the budget, and by the economy. None of these changes which have been proposed, come cheaply. Our responsibility is to weigh this up against all of the other competing priorities. 

It's also important to remember and recognise that as Australian families are under these extreme cost of living pressures, and their real wages are going backwards, and they're falling further behind, that there's more than one way to deal with these cost of living pressures. We've said already that we want to help people with power bills, we want to make childcare cheaper as well, and we want to get wages growing again. 

The other thing, which is important to pick up from the interview you just did then Greg, is that the Government wants to pretend that petrol prices are only going up because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There's been upward pressure on petrol prices for some time before that. More broadly Australian working families have been under extreme cost of living pressures for some time now. The Government shouldn't pretend that it's all Russia-Ukraine. Obviously, that is part of the story but it's not the whole story. 

JENNETT: Alright, I take your point about other cost of living factors, you've got childcare, you've got sluggish wages growth. Can we try and look through the prism that you might have to evaluate this budget at the end of this month? If fuel excise cuts are contained? What are some of the markers that you are going to apply as you run your ruler over? And should it be time limited? Should it be of a proportion that is big enough to be noticed by motorists. Give us some of your thoughts on what makes this able to be ticked or crossed? 

CHALMERS: Thanks for the opportunity, Greg, but I'm not keen to sort of get into what might be in the Government's announcement if they go down this path -

JENNETT: No but what are the principles for Labor and a Shadow Treasurer at least? 

CHALMERS: The primary principles for us are: what's good for working families? Is it responsible in the budget? And is it right for the economy when you weigh up all of the other competing priorities? We know the Government is considering this. We know they're considering a cut to the beer excise. We know that in an election year, this Government of all governments, will be tempted to throw money around in all directions. So our responsibility is to take that responsibility as the alternative government very seriously and weigh up what's in the Budget. There is another Budget between now and the election. We know that now. It will be two weeks from tomorrow. We will look at that Budget in its entirety. 

We have recognised for some time that Australians are under extreme cost of living pressures. The election will be about that, in part. That's why we've got policies on power bills, child care and getting wages growing again, because a big part of the cost of living story is petrol, but also rent, also groceries and also childcare, and right across the board. So we will take an approach that recognises all of those things simultaneously. 

JENNETT: Alright, well looking at the economy. What would not be good about helping the economy by cutting fuel excise when you consider the way in which fuel runs through so many prices all the way through to goods on a supermarket shelf. By that measure alone, you would have to lean favourably, wouldn't you, towards an excise cut of some size or another?

CHALMERS: We've recognised for some time that motorists are under a lot of cost of living pressure. As petrol prices have skyrocketed, even before the Russian invasion of Ukraine the price was heading towards $2, today in Brisbane it’s about $2.18, the average in Sydney is about $2.16, so we recognise there is lots of pressure on Australian motorists, as there is pressure on Australians more broadly when it comes to the costs of living. That's why it is so important that we look for responsible and affordable ways to ease cost of living pressures on Australians. We've nominated a couple of areas where we will do that. We've pointed out how important it is that we get real wages growing again, because that's a big part of the story too. Beyond that, if the government comes forward with a proposal in the budget, on petrol, on beer or on whatever it might be, we will evaluate that against the criteria we just talked about.

JENNETT: We know very clearly what the excise revenue take is. It could be about $6 billion if you halve it, and you can do the maths on different levels of cuts over and above that. So, at around $6 billion with the relief that it gave to families, would that be affordable? 

CHALMERS: It depends what else is in the Budget, Greg. It depends if there's other substantial spending in the budget. We don't know what the Government's going to do with the Low and Middle Income Tax Offset. We don't know what they're going to do with beer excise. We don't know what they're going to do with petrol excise. I think your viewers will understand, as the alternative government, that Labor wants to be very responsible with the people's budget, we need to factor in all of the announcements in the budget to work out what is what is affordable, what's responsible and what's right, in the context of an economy which is precariously balanced between the shocks of the recent past and the opportunities of the future. We've got a lot of tasks before us: rebuilding after the floods, locking in the recovery in the economy, making sure we can grow the economy without adding to these inflationary pressures. All of these things are crucially important and that's why we take those responsibilities so seriously, and we will weigh up what the government proposes against all of the other things in the budget. 

JENNETT: All right, as a matter of principle, though, if it were bipartisan, in its implementation - that is a bipartisan cutting of the excise – would you then want to take it back to the full 44 cents later? Should that also be pledged on a bipartisan basis, either way from Labor or the Coalition, on the other end of any excise cut? 

CHALMERS: Speaking in the hypothetical, it does matter if the government is going to provide some relief here at the petrol pump, it does matter when they intend to increase prices again, that’s some of the things that we would factor in from their announcements. It's hard to gauge or guess, where the Government might head on that front – the timing of any announcement or the total cost of any announcement. Because all of that is unknown then we would obviously keep our powder dry until we have the details. 

JENNETT: But would you lean towards something that was temporary or finite in nature? The question is asked for one obvious reason - the last time this was meddled with it turned out not to be very temporary at all. 

CHALMERS: I understand the historical context of this, and including the political history of when the last time something like this was contemplated. No doubt the primary motivation for the Government will be the politics. We try and take a more responsible view and that's why I don't want to pre-empt any of these kinds of characteristics of any future Government announcement. Obviously, we will discuss it with my colleagues as we do all of the big spending proposals that come before us, whether initiated by us or by the Government. That's the responsible thing to do and that's what your viewers can expect from us, to take the responsible approach. 

JENNETT: All right, still firmly parked in that era of pre-budget speculation. I guess it cuts both ways. Jim Chalmers, for your thoughts today, thanks for joining us again on Afternoon Briefing. 

CHALMERS: Appreciate it, Greg. Thank you. 

ENDS