JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
 

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING
THURSDAY, 16 DECEMBER 2021

SUBJECTS: MYEFO; Economy is recovering despite the Morrison Government not because of it; Unemployment rate doesn’t tell the full story; Underemployment, insecure work and real wages going backwards; Lockdowns made necessary because of Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg’s complacency; The Morrison government learnt absolutely nothing from furore over rorts and waste; Morrison government can’t rort the way to recovery; Morrison government sprung spending on political interest rather than national economic interest; Labor’s responsible fiscal strategy; Labor’s strategy to get bang for buck on budget spending; Vaccine incentive; PEP-11; Importance of following COVID-19 health advice.

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I welcome my guest Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. The deficit is ticked to be $99.2 billion in 2021-22. An improvement of $7.4 billion since the Budget, and that's despite the Delta lockdowns, do you welcome that improvement?

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: I think that improvement's inevitable in one way or another Patricia. The economy is recovering despite the government not because of it. We had that horrible downturn in the September quarter and things will inevitably rebound from there. And so the slight improvement in the deficit this year is a function of that. I think David Speers made a really important point a moment ago, in the third year and the fourth year, the deficits actually get bigger and into the medium term as well. And one of the reasons why we've got these deficits of this size and the reason why we've got a trillion dollars in debt is because the government snuck another $16 billion of secret slush funds into the Budget update today, and that shows that they've learned absolutely nothing from the furore over all the rorts and waste that they've been sprung red handed spending on their political interests rather than national economic interest.

KARVELAS: The unemployment rate has dropped 0.6 percentage points to 4.6%. That's a pretty impressive unemployment rate right?

CHALMERS: We want the unemployment rate to be as low as possible. But the unemployment rate, even when it is relatively low, doesn't tell the whole story of the labour market. We've still got underemployment, job insecurity, stagnant wages, real wages actually go backwards this year rather than forwards. I think when you take the labour market altogether, there's still a lot of insecurity and still a lot of uncertainty. We want that unemployment rate to be as low as possible but we also want the government to recognise we've still got 1.7 million Australians looking for a job or more hours at work at the same time as we've got these skills and labour shortages. And that hasn't just been an issue for the last two years. It's been an issue the last eight years.

KARVELAS: Treasury assumes that lockdowns are no longer required with most domestic activity restrictions lifted at the start of 2022 and they say only basic density restrictions in place. Do you think that's a fair assumption?

CHALMERS: The Budget assumes that the Morrison government gets absolutely everything bang-on when it comes to the management of the pandemic despite the fact that they've made some key mistakes over the last 12 to 24 months around vaccines and quarantine. That's why the economy was bleeding billions of dollars a week at one point. So I hope it's right that we emerge successfully from the Omicron strain in particular. The budget certainly assumes that everything will come good sooner rather than later. I hope that's the case. But the recent history of this Morison government is that they don't get everything bang-on and when they stuff things up like they did with vaccines and quarantine that brings a hefty economic cost.

KARVELAS: The Omicron variant is not assumed to significantly alter current reopening plans or require an imposition of widespread health and activity restrictions. Do you think that is something that they can say at this point in time about the Omicron variant?

CHALMERS: I think it remains to be seen. I think it's very, very clear that there's still a lot of uncertainty. You know, we hope that we can manage this strain more successfully than the government managed the Delta outbreak. We hope that's the case. But we can't be complacent about it. We can't be complacent on the health front, nor can we be complacent on the economic front. This time last year and in the May Budget, Treasurer Frydenberg was saying the economy was about to come roaring back then we had one of the biggest downturns in the history of the National Accounts in the September quarter. Hundreds of thousands of jobs lost over that period because of the lockdowns made necessary by the mistakes they made, which were born of complacency. So even when the numbers improve in unsurprising but welcome ways, we want to make sure that they're not cause for complacency. There's still a lot of uncertainty, a lot of weakness in the economy. The government's in a rush to take all the credit for anything good that's happening in the economy, but none of the responsibility for all the difficulties in the economy. And we'll see unfortunately more of that in the lead up to the election as they spray around the $16 billion in rorts that shows that they've learned nothing from the last eight years of rorting the Budget and creating that trillion dollars in debt.

KARVELAS: Okay, so obviously Labor will make certain decisions about what it will do. In terms of that war chest, the money that's been put aside that has not yet been allocated, what's Labor's fiscal strategy? What's your strategy going into the election? Do you see that as you know, up for grabs for many announcements as well? Is it going to be a spendathon this election?

CHALMERS: Not on our behalf Patricia. We've said all along that our fiscal strategy, our budget strategy, has three main parts. First of all, get maximum bang for buck for our investments when it comes to investing in growth in the economy, supporting working families, making jobs more secure and a Future Made in Australia. So making sure we get maximum bang for buck. Secondly, being much more responsible than the government when it comes to all this rorts and waste and mismanagement, which has characterised and defined their eight long years in office. And thirdly, there are opportunities in areas like multinational taxes, to follow the lead of the international community when it comes to making sure that multinationals pay their fair share of tax. All of that means we'd be more responsible than the government. We don't know yet precisely what kind of budget we'd inherit from them. But always, we will try and get maximum bang for buck, and make sure that our budget position reflects the economic conditions and not some kind of political strategy, which has been the main reason why Morrison and Frydenberg and their predecessors have failed so miserably when it comes to investing public money in the national economic interest.

KARVELAS: Given we've got such high rates of vaccination, is Labor still committed to this policy of $300 to get the jab?

CHALMERS: We made that clear some time ago, Patricia, that the time had passed for that. The deadline for that policy when we announced it was the first of December, so a couple of weeks ago now. We've made it clear that we don't intend to proceed with that. In terms of the vaccination rates, you know, it's obviously pleasing in some parts of Australia that those vaccination rates are quite high now. But in some parts of Australia, I know you're very attentive to this, some of the most vulnerable Australians are nowhere near 80% or 90% vaccination. In my community, we haven't yet passed 80% double vaccinated, and that's before you even get to the boosters and so there's still a lot of work to do on vaccinations. But we made our view clear on that policy some time ago via our Shadow Finance Minister.

KARVELAS: Okay, I missed it if you did. Do you see, though, I suppose with the benefit of hindsight, that it was maybe a kind of waste of money always? Look how many Australians turned up to get the jab. It was obviously going to be wasteful, wasn't it? You know, we didn't need to do it ever. Right?

CHALMERS: I don't accept that for two reasons. First of all, it was partly an economic stimulus. And at the time, the economy was shedding $2 to $3 billion a week on the government's own figures. So not just a shot in the arm for the vaccine program, but a shot in the arm for the economy. And secondly, as I just said, there are still communities that haven't reached 80% vaccination. So we won't be taking lectures about the allocation of public money from this government that's been sprung wasting tens of billions of dollars, you know, on JobKeeper for companies that didn't need it while other small businesses went without, billions wasted on sports rorts and local rorts and all the rest of it that's come to light over the last couple of years, but particularly in the last couple of days. We considered that to be an important and responsible suggestion at the time. The time has now passed and our priorities lie elsewhere.

KARVELAS: Morrison has announced the government will reject the petroleum exploration permit (Pep 11), which would see offshore gas exploration off the coastlines between Sydney and Newcastle. Do you welcome that decision?

CHALMERS: Of course I do. I mean, it's been absolutely mad that the Prime Minister's left those communities hanging for most of this year, and I think that if we get the outcome that we want here that will be a tribute to the local communities that rose up against the Morrison government delaying this important decision. There are a lot of Labor Members of Parliament and Labor candidates and Anthony Albanese who really put his back into that campaign. It's important that we get this result. Let's see it made absolutely official, not everybody believes something that Scott Morrison might just say in passing about this project, but it shouldn't be going ahead. That's been clear to us for some time. If it's now clear to the government, that's a good outcome.

KARVELAS: Just on the language we're currently using or the approach on managing COVID-19, Prime Minister Scott Morrison has used really similar language to Dominic Perrotet, that language of personal responsibility saying, if you're feeling uncertain, then it's not compulsory to go out and it's not compulsory not to wear a mask either. So, leaving it leaving it in the hands of individuals, do you think that's reasonable at this stage of the pandemic?

CHALMERS: It needs to be constantly under review. And what we've tried to do, as you know Patricia, is try not to second guess the advice that political leaders get of either political persuasion. We need to hew as closely as we can to the health advice. I mean, Scott Morrison talking about taking responsibility. Give me a break. He should take responsibility for his stuff ups on vaccines and quarantine and economic support, which meant that the economy entered another big hole not that long ago this year. He should take responsibility for what he's responsible for. Australians will do the right thing on the main if they're given the right guidance, State Premiers listen closely to the health advice, we should follow that as closely as we can too.

KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us.

CHALMERS: Thanks, Patricia. All the best.

ENDS