JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC BRISBANE DRIVE
MONDAY, 17 MAY 2021
SUBJECTS: Fuel refineries; Morrison Government’s failures on quarantine; Post-Budget National Press Club address; Labor’s Budget Reply.
STEVE AUSTIN, HOST: The federal Government says hundreds of jobs will be protected by a package launched today, or announced today, aimed at keeping Australia's remaining oil refineries running. The Prime Minister Scott Morrison was in Brisbane today to make the announcement at the Lytton oil refinery, owned by Ampol. You'll hear from Ampol later on this afternoon, in the next hour on this program, but is this a good spend of money? Remember this federal Government for years, severely, viciously, attacked the federal Labor Government over the amount of money they were spending. Let me just jog your memory. This is Prime Minister Scott Morrison, when he was Treasurer of Australia.
“The real cause of our debt and deficit is the Rudd Government's reckless spending, which at 28.6% of GDP - now this is the big figure, 28.6% of GDP - a record high since World War Two. It has eclipsed, even the largesse of previous Labor Government's and is staying that way over the forecast period. This is a Government that simply believes it can borrow and spend its way out of trouble with other people's money.”
AUSTIN: Then-Treasurer, Scott Morrison. Let's go to the Shadow ALP Treasury Spokesperson Jim Chalmers. Jim Chalmers, what is the spending or the debt-to-GDP ratio at the moment as it currently stands?
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: It's heading up into the 40s, Steve. Which is much bigger obviously than it was 10 or 12 years ago during and in the aftermath of the GFC, so the debt burden that Scott Morrison was speaking about then is much bigger on his watch than it was before.
AUSTIN: It's getting a little bit hard to keep track of all the money that's being splashed around, Jim Chalmers. Today there was an announcement of $2.1 billion over nine years to ensure fuel security, to prop up our oil refineries. We've got two remaining oil refineries, they'll be encouraged to stay operating under this plan. How does Labor feel about the money to ensure that these refineries stay open in Australia?
CHALMERS: First of all, there were four refineries not that long ago, during the life of this Government I think two hit the fence even after the last support package was announced by the Government. So there has been a very troubling, very concerning trend here. We do think that refineries are worth supporting. There's two left now, one at Lytton as you said in your intro, and another one elsewhere. And why they're so worth supporting is because there is a fuel security element to it, but most importantly there's a jobs element to it.
I've spent a bit of time at that Lytton refinery, I've been through there a couple of times. I've got a mate out there, Mick Denton, who's been fighting very hard for this support package, working on it for some months now. In principle we welcome what's been announced here, we think the Government's got a bit of a problem in actually delivering what they've announced, but I think the sector’s worth supporting from a jobs perspective but also from a fuel security perspective. So in that light will be pretty welcoming of what they've said today.
AUSTIN: The indication seems to be that some years down the track the facility may be used for hydrogen fuel conversion and the like. Has your mate, Mick Denton, told you anything about the plan there?
CHALMERS: One of the reasons why we need to keep these places going is because the fuels that they make there will become increasingly sophisticated, increasingly modern. So part of the money is to modernise the two remaining refineries and to make sure that as the industry develops that the workforce and the refineries themselves can keep up. There's a fuel security element to that, there's a competitive element to it as well, but most of all employment.
AUSTIN: My guest is Jim Chalmers. This is ABC Radio Brisbane. Steve Austin's my name. Let's move on to another announcement today, so while the Prime Minister has been in Brisbane Jim Chalmers, he's been in your neighbourhood.
CHALMERS: He's been in Logan actually, he's been right in my neighbourhood.
AUSTIN: I missed that bit, but he said while he was here that he's still not convinced about the merits of a purpose-built quarantine centre near Toowoomba. Let me just play you what he had to say this morning, whilst he was in Brisbane.
“Well the problem with it is, we've never actually had a proposal. And the details when you compare what's been put forward by the Victorian Government is chalk and cheese. Victoria has put a very comprehensive proposal to us, something we can actually work with, and we are. One of the biggest difficulty with that proposal is it's not near a major capital city where there's a major hospital. That's the big problem with it, amongst many others. The idea that you can just put these out in the desert somewhere, I know Toowoomba's not the desert, but the point being they need to be close to major capital city airports, because the planes aren't going somewhere else, they're coming into Brisbane and that is a very long trek.”
AUSTIN: I'll leave it there, that's Scott Morrison talking about the facility. Should the federal Government fund, plan, develop, a quarantine camp near Toowoomba, but why will it be a State Government responsibility?
CHALMERS: You know why I like it when Scott Morrison's in Queensland, Steve? It's because every time he comes here he reminds people that he doesn't take responsibility for anything. I mean quarantine is a federal responsibility. Any Prime Minister worth anything would be working closely with the States and not bagging him as he's come here to do once again. There is an opportunity out there near Toowoomba to go through the details and to see what might be possible.
His position is based on a thorough misunderstanding of what's possible in Toowoomba in terms of the capacity of the airport and its capacity to do these sorts of things. If there's an opportunity here - and quarantine is one of the things that has been badly stuffed up - if there's an opportunity to get things right by quarantining people near the airport at Toowoomba, then he should be looking at it but he's always just looking for an opportunity to wash his hands of these problems and that's the issue here.
Any Prime Minister who genuinely wanted to solve this problem - and it is a big problem with quarantine, and that's before we even get the vaccinations and all the rest of it - there's a big problem here and it's his responsibility. Any decent Prime Minister would take responsibility for it, would speak to Annastacia Palaszczuk about it. If there's not enough detail yet then ask for more detail and come to a decision but don't just come here and beg the idea because he hasn't gotten across it.
AUSTIN: The States are responsible for providing police and other staff to sort of keep people hold in quarantine in quarantine motels, would they be doing the same for a quarantine facility like the ones suggested for Toowoomba by the Premier?
CHALMERS: It depends on the arrangement that's struck between this State Government and the feds, so I guess the point that I'm making is they should sit down and work it out. I mean, it wasn't that long ago during the worst part of the pandemic that the Prime Minister was mouthing all these platitudes about being all in this together. If we're genuinely all in this together, and if we're genuinely not out of the out of the woods yet when it comes to the pandemic, then why doesn't he work with the State Government? And if Toowoomba's a bad idea, why doesn't he come up with a better idea, rather than just coming here, press conference after press conference, and bagging everybody else's idea and pretending he's got no influence of it. He should take responsibility, he doesn't do that, if he did that we'd be better off.
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers is the federal Member for Rankin, which is a federal electorate on the southside of Brisbane, and also the Shadow Treasury spokesperson, who I believe is giving a speech later on this week to the National Press Club lunch, what about Jim Chalmers?
CHALMERS: It’s tradition for the Shadow Treasurer to have a bit of a gallop at the National Press Club on the Wednesday after the Budget, eight days after the Budget each year. The Shadow Treasurer, having looked at how the Budget's received and having had time to go through the economics that underpin it, that's the tradition. I think it's a bit unusual this year because typically the debate about the Budget's still raging and the Government's still trying to sell their Budget and trying to make it prominent, but remarkably for this one given how much money was sprayed around, it's sort of disappeared a bit from the public consciousness. I'll be talking about it on Wednesday, but I feel like the country has kind of moved on a bit.
AUSTIN: Well, some sort of opinion writers have been saying that Labor, your side, needs a different strategy, that you can't keep sort of highlighting the hypocrisy of the federal Government, you've got to actually come up with something different. The couple of economists I've read said it leaves you with two broad options - either go for Bernie Sanders democratic socialists or else return to your Hawke-Keating roots of the 1980s style Labor. Which do you prefer, Jim Chalmers?
CHALMERS: You know me pretty well, Steve, having hung out most Mondays for the last little while, I think you know the answer to that. I'm not a Bernie Sanders type and I'm a great admirer of the Hawke-Keating era, but the times have moved on a bit. I think that what we do need to replicate from Hawke-Keating is the sense of vision. I think if there was a missing piece in the budget last week it was that deficit of vision.
But for us it's a bit different now than it was in the 80s and 90s. Now we need to be thinking about cleaner and cheaper energy, and teaching and training our people for technological change, and turning our ideas into jobs, all those sorts of things that Anthony Albanese and the rest of us have been talking about for some time. In terms of the kind of politics of it and the commentators, I think if you get the economics right the rest will take care of itself. The commentators have wanted to write that the Government in coming to our view on a couple of different things has somehow pulled-off some kind of strategic masterstroke, I prefer to think of it as we've been right all along and they've been wrong all along.
AUSTIN: Well, the Government looks like a Keynesian Labor Government these days, doesn't it? They've totally taken your ground.
CHALMERS: I'll tell you why I don't agree with that, Steve. I know that that's been written a few times and people have got their view, I'll tell you what I agree with. If you look at this Budget it's got $100 billion in new spending, it's got a trillion in debt, and still after all of that, at the end of the Budget period real wages actually go backwards. And I don't think any self-respecting Keynesian Labor Government would accept that kind of outcome in the labour market having sprayed hat much money around.
AUSTIN: Why not go after their ground, deliberately target sort of middle Australia, working families, small and medium sized businesses, and entrepreneurs.
CHALMERS: You just described in one sentence exactly what I'm about! I think that regardless of what last week's Budget said I think that is our task. I think we do need to stake out the middle ground, I've always had that view. Every minute that I've been in politics my view has been that the best Labor Governments are the ones that stake out the broadest territory, the ones that recognise it's about making sure people aren't left behind, but also making sure people can get ahead, not just get by but get ahead. Those are the things I deeply, deeply care about. And small businesses, and all the rest of the things that you just ran through, I think that should be our approach regardless of what the Prime Minister and the Treasurer say from one Budget to another, regardless of the kind of dumpster fire of inconsistency and hypocrisy that comes from their position on debt.
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers is my guest. Jim Chalmers is the federal Labor Member for Rankin and the Shadow Treasury spokesperson. Bradley, a listener, has sent me a tweet. He wants me to ask you this about the new laws, the Migration Amendment Clarifying International Obligations For Removal Bill, that was tabled on the last sitting day of the March session of parliament. It was voted on Thursday, but the debate was cut short on the floor of the Senate. Now I didn't follow that, but essentially the new laws allow Australian Governments to indefinitely detain refugees. Is Labor comfortable with these laws, Jim Chalmers?
CHALMERS: Brad and Steve, I'll have to have another look at it, I was focussed on the Budget for much of the last month or so, I’ll have another look at it and perhaps we could have a yarn about it next Monday.
AUSTIN: I believe he's copied you via Twitter so it should be in your feed somewhere, so we'll leave it there and maybe ask you about it next week, Jim Chalmers.
CHALMERS: Sounds good.
AUSTIN: Thanks for your time.
CHALMERS: Thanks, Steve.
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers is the federal Labor Member for Rankin and the Shadow Treasury spokesperson. He's giving a post-Budget Reply speech to the National Press Club luncheon in Canberra on Wednesday of this week.
ENDS
