E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC BRISBANE DRIVE
MONDAY, 19 OCTOBER 2020
SUBJECTS: JobKeeper; Stranded Australians.
STEVE AUSTIN, HOST: Let's go to Jim Chalmers. Jim Chalmers, thanks for coming on this afternoon. Why has one of your counterparts written to these 200 big companies and asked did you access JobKeeper?
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Thanks Steve for having me back on. My colleague Andrew Leigh, who I work very closely with in the economic team for Federal Labor, has written to those 200 companies because of the concern, that's widely shared in the community, that if we're going to be giving tens of billions of dollars in JobKeeper payments, we want to make sure that they're doing the job that they're intended to do which is to support jobs and support workers. Andy's concern is that there have been companies who've chosen to pay executive bonuses and other things like that with the JobKeeper money. We support JobKeeper, it’s a good thing and supporting a heap of jobs, we proposed it in the first place but we want to make sure it's going where it's needed. But one of the unusual stats is in the quarter where the economy really went backwards, where there were hundreds of thousands of jobs lost, there was something like a 15 per cent boost in profits. That tells us some companies who are getting JobKeeper probably don't need it, especially if it's going to executive bonuses.
AUSTIN: Is there evidence that Australian taxpayers' money through JobKeeper boosted either overseas companies executive bonuses or their share value or their profit?
CHALMERS: Certainly in terms of profit, and there are examples where executive bonuses have been have been paid. I think the purpose of Andrew's work is to work out how widespread that is, so that we understand whether there are some missed opportunities there to send that money where it can do more good.
AUSTIN: So the Australian taxpayer subsidised the wealthiest non-tax paying companies in the world like Apple, Microsoft, McDonald's, and more?
CHALMERS: Those are the companies that are talked about in this area. I think certainly they're some of the 200 that Andrew has written to, to try and get to the bottom of it. He's spoken about this for some time as you know; I think you've shown an interest in this for some time as well. This has shone a light on something that a lot of Australians are worried about.
AUSTIN: I read on the Guardian newspaper website today that the US and New Zealand governments maintain a public database of which companies receive their wage subsidies and how much. Is it correct that the Australian Government has chosen to keep these JobKeeper payments secret? I'm relying on the Guardian newspaper. I wonder if you can address that for me.
CHALMERS: That's my understanding, Steve. We're typically in favour of more transparency rather than less. Each year we find out which companies pay little or no tax. This seems to be a similar idea, that we get that kind of transparency. I want to make it clear though Steve in the broader sense; JobKeeper is doing a lot of good in the economy, it's just really falling down in terms of some of the government's implementation of it. The best way to get that implementation right is to properly understand what's going on. In that regard, transparency is our friend.
AUSTIN: The US and New Zealand governments do maintain a public database of which companies receive wage subsidies, but the Australian Government deliberately chooses or has it just been the policy for years not to reveal it? Can you just clarify that?
CHALMERS: Certainly they choose not to reveal it. There's not really lots of comparisons to make, given that it's a pretty unusual intervention in the economy to spend more than $100 billion all told on these wage subsidies -
AUSTIN: And to have it go to some of the most profitable companies overseas, it would be extraordinary, wouldn't it?
CHALMERS: It's going to a lot of businesses that need it, but the purpose of Andrew's work is to work out where it's just puffed up profits or executive bonuses. In his view and in my view, the public have a right to know.
AUSTIN: I don't want to be unfair to them, but I raise Apple, for instance, because I'm told that the market capitalisation of Apple, for instance, in California is greater than nearly a third of many smaller countries around the world combined. In other words, they're so massive -
CHALMERS: Yeah. They're a behemoth. They're the reason why the word "behemoth" was invented.
AUSTIN: Right, but the Australian taxpayer may actually be subsidising that?
CHALMERS: There's a broader issue there too with some of these big companies which has been on the agenda for a few years now, which is to try and make sure that we can find a way for companies to pay tax where they are making profits. In this case, where the Government is for understandable reasons supporting a lot of businesses and a lot of workers around Australia, we need to make sure that that money is going where it's needed most, not spraying around in terms of executive bonuses.
AUSTIN: Is there any legal requirement for these 200 international companies to respond to your fellow frontbencher?
CHALMERS: Not that I'm aware of, but I think if they were not to respond, that would say a lot; that would say almost as much as if they responded.
AUSTIN: My guest is Jim Chalmers. Jim Chalmers is the ALP Shadow Treasury spokesperson. He's also the Labor member for Rankin on the south side. It's 17 minutes to five. Before I let you go Jim Chalmers, are we doing enough to bring Australian citizens who are stranded overseas and registered with DFAT as trying to get back home? Is the Australian Government doing enough to assist them? There's somewhere around 23,000 of them at last count. We've had quite a few contact this radio station by the way via email and social media saying, help! Can you speak to that at all?
CHALMERS: It's a massive issue and the short answer is no, the Government's not doing enough. There is twenty-something thousand Australians stranded overseas who want to come home. It's been more than a month now since we suggested to the Government that they use the Air Force fleet to try and bring more people home. There was a token announcement last week that they'd do some flights from a few cities and bring home a few thousand, but it's a much bigger problem than that.
AUSTIN: Why was it token?
CHALMERS: It's just not enough. I mean it barely makes a dent in that number that you just talked about. We think more should be done. Obviously anything's better than nothing but it's been a long time now where this has been really clearly an issue. A lot of people are really anxious. I can totally understand where they're coming from; stuck overseas, the flights aren't available, where they are available sometimes you'd need a second mortgage to pay for it
AUSTIN: A base rate of $5,000 is what I'm hearing.
CHALMERS: Imagine that, I'm in a family of five, imagine what that's like. It's not just yourself but your family. It's a bigger issue than the Government is treating it. I think the token effort that they put forward last we really highlights the problem here.
AUSTIN: We're hearing stories Jim Chalmers from one person who spoke to us, who paid the money to the airline, the flight was cancelled -
CHALMERS: Yeah.
AUSTIN: You can't get the money back, the airline just says, when we can get you another seat we'll do it, you've just got to stand by -
CHALMERS: Yeah, you get a credit -
AUSTIN: You get a credit. You don't get your money back. You don't get a guarantee of a flight. You don't get a time. You really are extremely vulnerable and this is apparently quite normal.
CHALMERS: Imagine what that means as well for things like accommodation. If you're paying rent overseas and you tell your landlord that you're off on a certain date, and you have to renegotiate that? All of those sorts of costs, all of that anxiety. It's getting very close to Christmas. The Government's just kicked the can down the road a little bit while a lot of people are fretting.
AUSTIN: Will these 23,000 people be able to get home to Australia for Christmas or not?
CHALMERS: Not with the current settings. Not on the current pace or the current trajectory. A lot of those people will be left stranded. That's why we think there is real urgency and a real opportunity to consider the sorts of things that we probably wouldn't consider in normal times, like using the RAAF fleet. We've got to get people home -
AUSTIN: What about the static Qantas fleet? I mean, these people will pay. Qantas wants to make a bit of money. The planes are all sitting there, all over the world! They're just parked in Arizona and places like that, in the Northern Territory, doing nothing. Pilots want to fly them.
CHALMERS: There should be some coordination. We've talked about this so-called National Cabinet before that's supposed to be this revolution in how we govern ourselves. It seems bizarre that the PM hasn't been able to use that to coordinate the private sector, but also perhaps our defence assets to try and get these people home. We've got a responsibility to people after all of this time, and all this worry and anxiety, to do what we can. I don't think they're doing enough.
AUSTIN: I'll leave it there. Thanks for your time.
CHALMERS: Thank you, Steve.
ENDS
