JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC BRISBANE DRIVE
MONDAY, 23 AUGUST 2021
SUBJECTS: Afghanistan; Scott Morrison’s 3 year anniversary as a Prime Minister who doesn’t take responsibility; A long way to go to meet our vaccination targets.
STEVE AUSTIN, HOST: Jim Chalmers is a senior Opposition figure. He's the Shadow Treasury Spokesperson in Labor, and also the Member for Rankin here in Queensland. Jim Chalmers, I can't recall has Labor indicated yet as to whether you would support a proper formal inquiry into what's taken place in our leaving of Afghanistan?
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Not yet, Steve. Obviously when you think about the incredibly serious goings-on in Afghanistan, particularly at the moment in Kabul, there needs to be a lot of reflection on how we got to this position. I was listening to that fascinating debate in the House of Commons, and you played part of it, Theresa May in particular. People will have good reasons that countries should have stayed there and good reasons to have left. But really, the unforgiveable thing from my point of view, and I think from Australia's point of view, is the lack of preparation. When the day did come that, in Australia's case and the Prime Minister's case, there wasn't more work done to try and avoid some of this chaos. The Americans didn't pull out with a day's notice, they pulled out with months of notice. Other countries were able to get their act together quicker. I fear that we, by we I mean our Government, wasn't sufficiently prepared. They came at this problem far too late to be as effective as we need to be. There are a lot of our people doing a lot of great work extracting people from that horrible scene at the airport, and we support them and we support their mission. It's a dangerous mission still to get people out of there. But I think when we reflect on Australia's role, not just the 20 years of the conflict itself but the last week or two, the question we really need to answer is why Scott Morrison left things so late, such that we are leaving too many people at risk of being left behind.
AUSTIN: I’ve spoken with a person, a former Army Major who did two tours of Afghanistan, who says he wrote on the 29th of May to his Federal MP. The Federal MP told him that his letter had gone to the Prime Minister's Office and was copied to the Defence Minister back in May, warning of this and still has not heard back from anyone. I know Federal MPs and Members of Parliament must get bombarded with thousands of emails from people, but given this was former Defence Force personnel, if someone at a senior level contacts you and warned you something's going to happen, is it normal to ignore them?
CHALMERS: No, it wouldn't be normal. But I think what makes that especially so in this case Steve, is that former serviceman wasn't alone. There were a lot of people warning that we were at risk of leaving some of our people behind. There were quite a few people calling months ago for some kind of plan. I think what's frustrating people, and in some ways, this goes beyond kind of partisan politics, but it's a frustration that people have with our Prime Minister in particular. He talks now about the wisdom of hindsight but whether it was the bushfires, whether it's the situation in Afghanistan, whether it's vaccines, whether it's a whole range of other things, he's always hoping somebody else takes responsibility. So that when the time comes, when it's too late to be effective, he can't do enough. We're seeing that right across the board. And he's been the Prime Minister for three years tomorrow. Three years tomorrow since he's been sworn in. And the defining feature of that period, that we're seeing now across so many areas, is he has spent three years trying to avoid responsibility. And that's why I think so many people are frustrated, including the people who tried to warn him about this impending disaster. There is a pattern of behaviour here, trying to avoid responsibility until it's too late. And now we're scrambling and people are doing the best that they can to get as many people as they can out of that diabolical hellhole which is the airport. What we're missing here is some national leadership. That is the frustration that people have.
AUSTIN: The UK Parliament condemned Joe Biden's handling of the Afghanistan withdrawal as quote "catastrophic and shameful". That's a country that says they have a special relationship within the US. Our parliament has been debating today, or making speeches today. Has there been any criticism at all of our so called allies, the United States out of our parliament today?
CHALMERS: Not that I heard, Steve. I watched that debate today, but I think it's inevitable that there will be criticism of our partners, whether it's the US or others, that is inevitable.
AUSTIN: But this is the UK, Jim. This is not you know some left-wing random, this is the UK, who have the closest relationship since World War Two to the United States. And they had a vote and held Joe Biden in contempt in parliament, it's just extraordinary words. Yet Australia, once again, seems to be this weak little mealy mouthed, you know, Deputy Sheriff of the United States, where they say jump and we say how high? We never ask any questions of them. Something's wrong.
CHALMERS: I understand your point, Steve. I've heard you make it before. I'm not sure I share it entirely. I mean there's a lot of criticism, for example, around decisions that got us into the war in Iraq. A lot of Australians have been very critical of the Americans in that respect. But I think the Australian Parliament's focus now is where it should be - not on apportioning blame, at least not for now, but on trying to fix this situation which we knew was coming. We should have listened to former servicemen and women who rang the bell on this, but we shouldn't have needed that. This has been months in the making this situation.
AUSTIN: We had American intelligence briefings, everyone knew!
CHALMERS: Well, the Americans themselves were in their own words surprised by the pace of the Taliban takeover. I don't see their intelligence, I don't see the Government's intelligence. Clearly, there are questions that need to be asked. The point that I'm making, my view, and I think the Australian Parliament's view, certainly my party's view in the parliament, is that we’ve got to fix this mess. We've got to get people out who helped us. We went into a difficult and dangerous situation, which would have been impossible without interpreters and other locals on the ground helping us out. They stood next to us when the bullets were whizzing around our ears. It's the least we can do to stand with them now while the bullets are whizzing around theirs. That's been the failure here. It goes beyond the specifics of the integrity of the migration system, which is important. It goes beyond the specifics of the numbers that we are prepared to take. It is a matter of principle. That if we are a country that takes seriously this idea of looking after our mates and looking after people that looked after us, then it is shameful that we've got ourselves in this situation, and we need to fix it. And that's been the focus of the Australian Parliament and certainly the Australian Labor Party.
AUSTIN: Ever since last week, when the story first broke about what was happening, I've had continual text messages to this station, saying that the whole idea of Australian mateship is a myth. I've never seen such anger and rage from my listeners. Now, it's not every message, but frequently it comes through, real anger at what I'm interpreting as a betrayal by the United States of others. A betrayal by Australia of people who helped us. Whether or not, you know, they're great people or not doesn't matter. People who helped us. And there's a belief that we owe them something.
CHALMERS: I agree with that 100 per cent. I get a heap of feedback as well in my electorate office and one of the things I've noticed about it, is that it cuts across the usual party lines. It's not the usual people that get in touch. It is an issue I think which has grabbed people's attention, even people who are disengaged from politics or foreign policy. That's because there is an important principle at stake here. It's a principle that all of us understand. And it's a principle that's worth, not just celebrating or reading about in history books, but it's something we need to constantly advance. And I think that's where the Government's fallen short here. They need to right the ship, because it's a big thing that's at stake.
AUSTIN: My guest is Jim Chalmers. He's a senior Opposition figure in Canberra. He is the ALP Shadow Treasury Spokesperson. He's also the Labor Member for Rankin here in Queensland. Let me leave that to one side and ask you a question about the pandemic and it's handling. Can you clarify for me, does Labor agree that Australia should open up after a majority of the nation has been vaccinated with their two shots at the level of around to 70 or 80 per cent. What is Labor's exact position?
CHALMERS: Our view on this, is that if that's based on the Doherty modelling, then the Doherty modelling said that when that happened we would have cases less than 100. At the moment, we're getting 800 plus a day in New South Wales. The Prime Minister said today he's receiving updated advice to feed into that plan. So I think your listeners would understand that if there's updated advice, and if the plan is being updated, then we should hear what that is before we come to a view on it. We feel like there's a lot of confusion about what the plan is. I think frankly the Prime Minister likes it that way, he likes there to be some and division over the plan.
AUSTIN: He's citing the Doherty Institute.
CHALMERS: Yes, but he said today that the advice has been updated. And we said, well can the country see that advice and how it's been updated? And he wouldn't provide it. The first point is that 70 or 80 per cent would be terrific, but remember we are barely over 20 per cent at the moment, I think around 23 per cent. So we are well, well short of 70 or 80 per cent. Kids aren't included in it, and I know as a parent, that one of the things that is absolutely terrifying about the Delta variant is what it means for our kids. We got complacent last year about the other variants, which weren't being passed around amongst kids. The Delta variant has been passed around kids, so we've asked them questions about that. Let's see what the updated advice is. Let's hear what the updated plan is. Let's hear what it means for kids. And let's hear how we're going to get from 23 to 70, which is the most important thing in the first instance.
AUSTIN: I'll leave it there. Jim Chalmers, thanks.
CHALMERS: Thanks very much.
ENDS
