E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS AFTERNOON BRIEFING
THURSDAY, 4 APRIL 2019
SUBJECT/S: Budget Reply; Medicare; income tax cuts; NDIS; Newstart
PATRICIA KARVELAS: I will bring in my first guest, he's Labor's finance spokesman, and he knows everything about what Bill's going to say in the speech tonight. Hello.
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Hi Patricia.
KARVELAS: Welcome to the program. Alright, what's Bill Shorten going to outline tonight?
CHALMERS: I think it would be career limiting in the extreme if I were to make all of Bill's announcements for him. But I think in your intro, you were spot on. If there is one thing Bill is known for, one thing he is incredibly passionate about, it's about making healthcare, and particularly Medicare, more accessible and more affordable, for more people, and you can expect to here much more about that tonight.
KARVELAS: Last election you ran the Mediscare campaign and many people have acknowledged that it was based on some mistruths. Will you run a campaign that is based on lies again?
CHALMERS: I don't accept, obviously, any of those characterisations of the last campaign. It is my belief that the Liberal Party has never genuinely believed in Medicare, not from its inception onwards. Labor is the party of Medicare. It's well within our rights to point out the contrast between the two parties. There will be more of that tonight as Bill speaks about his passionate commitment to accessible and affordable healthcare. And that will be a key part of the campaign going forward. Because if you ask people around Australia what their major concerns are, it is that when they get sick they will get the care they need and deserve. That's Bill's passion, it's shared with the community, and it's within our rights to campaign on it.
KARVELAS: OK, let's get some clarity on your strategy then. Will there be robocalls to old people saying that they're going to lose their rights to health? Is that the sort of thing you're going to see again?
CHALMERS: I'm not responsible for planning the campaign, and I'm not sure whether there'll be robocalls...
KARVELAS: No, but do you think that's acceptable to frighten old people?
CHALMERS: I think it's acceptable to point out to people where the services they need and deserve are under threat. I do think they're under threat under the Liberal Party. We don't take a backward step when it comes to that. The Liberal Party are notorious for cutting health, and giving that money to the top end of town in the form of enormous tax cuts. Remember, in the last term of the Parliament, this term that's just finishing now, Scott Morrison as Treasurer took money out of hospitals and schools and tried to give $80 billion to the big banks and foreign multinationals. It is well within our rights to point out that contrast. I think the Australian people want to know what the differences are so they can make an informed choice. So to be clear, that Medicare campaign you ran at the last federal election, you'd replicate that again, no guilt, no issues? You think that's fair and you'd do it again?
CHALMERS: Every campaign is different, but I can guarantee that we will be campaigning on Medicare in this election on the differences between the Liberals, who always seek to cut it, and Labor, who always seek to advance and protect it.
KARVELAS: But they're not planning to cut it, are they? They haven't announced any cuts to Medicare.
CHALMERS: No, but there are substantial cuts to healthcare while Scott Morrison was Treasurer and either side of that and the Budget on Tuesday night was their big chance to change course and restore some of those cuts.
KARVELAS: Well they did change on the Medicare rebate. Do you give them credit for that because they've changed their policy on it?
CHALMERS: They did a tiny part of what we have been calling for. All of the cuts to hospitals are still there and all of the cuts to schools and TAFEs, all of that is still there. Essentially, the budget on Tuesday night, when Australians wanted to hear this Government finally listen and change course, it was more of the same. Australians want a different set of choices made on their behalf. And what Bill Shorten will do tonight is he will outline the different choices that he would make as leader of a stable, united, experienced team which is ready to govern and ready to deliver the fair go.
KARVELAS: Let's talk about your alternative tax plan or what we already know. The Opposition Leader will confirm tonight that Labor will oppose the Coalition's plan to reduce the top marginal rate. Is that because you think it's unfair or unaffordable?
CHALMERS: Both. There is absolutely no question when you have a budget which is still in deficit, when you have debt which has doubled over the last six years of the Liberal Government, we don't have the luxury in this country of spraying money around, particularly to those who need at least. Governing is about choices, particularly when the budget is tight. The Government always chooses to shower largesse on the top end of town at the expense of middle Australia. And we will say unapologetically that when there is tax relief to be handed out the number one priority should be low and middle income earners. Sometimes that means you cannot afford tax cuts for the wealthiest Australians. So be it. Those are the choices we would make. They are different to the choices Scott Morrison makes.
KARVELAS: When it comes to people under $40,000, and you have been critical of the Coalition's tax plan because of people in that cohort; if you talk your example about a retail worker on $35,000, they will get an extra $55 per year under Labor. It is not much, is it?
CHALMERS: It's important.
KARVELAS: Are we having an election fight over $55 per year?
We are having an election fight about who deserves tax relief in this country the most and who is more likely to spend it to help the economy. Consumption in the economy's been downgraded again, wages have been downgraded again, growth has been downgraded again. We need to give tax relief to those are most likely to spend it. We can't afford to give out the kind of tax cuts that Scott Morrison wants to give to people on $200,000 or $300,000 a year. If you're on 200 grand you get an $11,000 tax cut.
KARVELAS: But you earn a lot more too, so you can compare the numbers, but the actual base salaries are different.
CHALMERS: Your example was a $35,000 worker who gets $255 a week from this Government a week from this Government. If you're on 200 grand you get $11,000 - the multiples don't stack up.
KARVELAS: But you accept it's a $55 a year difference?
CHALMERS: Yes, I accept that. I accept the difference between what we had proposed and what the Government has proposed is not thousands and thousands of dollars. It may not be $55, we'll announce all of those numbers tonight. But we accept that when you're giving tax relief out, you've got to be responsible about it. That's what we're doing. But we are prioritising people on low and middle incomes. The Government is prioritising massively, people at the very top of the income scale. That is unfair, it is unaffordable, and it's not good for the economy.
KARVELAS: Let us talk about the NDIS, because this was a Labor attack in Question Time today again, Linda Burney prosecuting that case for Labor. Has the bipartisanship on the NDIS ended, because the Prime Minister made the point that it is a bipartisan commitment yet you are scoring political points here?
CHALMERS: I don't accept that the bipartisanship is ending now. I think that the bipartisanship ended in two ways. In the unedifying way that Scott Morrison went about campaigning for his tax hike when he had that on the table, pretending that Labor did not support the NDIS. We are the architects of it. Bill Shorten, Jenny Macklin, Wayne Swan, Julia Gillard. Labor is the architects of the NDIS. We will always defend it. The bipartisanship probably frayed at that moment, I think.
KARVELAS: So it is dead.
CHALMERS: It's not irrecoverable. But that's when the bipartisanship frayed. But also, when they have been pretending for years now that there are these massive blowouts in the NDIS, now we know that there have been lying all along. There has actually been underspends. And Scott Morrison's defence is that there is no enough demand for it. I encourage him to go to any community in Australia and talk to Australians with a disability and tell them there is not enough demand. What has happened is, people with a disability have been forced to wait for the services that they were promised. That's shameful, because it's propping up the Government's Budget.
KARVELAS: There is a significant underspend and that has been revealed in the Budget. The Government is not contesting the actual underspend. So will you spend all that money? Will that not be in your bottom line of savings?
CHALMERS: We will get the NDIS back on track.
KARVELAS: But will you spend the money, I asked a different question.
CHALMERS: That's how you do it.
KARVELAS: By spending it all?
CHALMERS: That's how you get the money out the door. You make sure the people who are entitled to the services get it.
KARVELAS: So in the next year it is 1.6. You will spend it all?
CHALMERS: No, we are saying that we will get it back on track. It depends on what we inherit.
KARVELAS: So you'll commit to 1.6?
CHALMERS: It depends what we inherit and at what point.
KARVELAS: So you might underspend too.
CHALMERS: The point we're making is, there are a couple of ways to get the NDIS back on track and get people the services they need and deserve. First of all, the Government has this ridiculous staffing cap which means you can't actually churn through the packages you need to allocate. That's a big problem, we'll abolish the cap. Secondly, we need to get Australians with a disability actually having a bigger voice in the NDIS that is designed to meet their needs. I think the combination of those two things gives us a better chance than the Government in getting the money out the door, getting people the packages they need.
KARVELAS: But you can't commit to spending all the money?
CHALMERS: Well, that's our commitment.
KARVELAS: But you can't commit to spending all the money?
CHALMERS: We don't know how much will be left at that point, we don't know if the Government's figures are accurate. Our commitment to the Australian people and particularly to Australians with a disability is to get them the packages that they need, that they were promised, as quick as we can. I have told you a couple of ways we will go about doing that.
KARVELAS: Do you think the actual legislation fundamentally needs a rewrite, because I've spoken to people who say it's bigger than just the staff caps, it needs a bigger overhaul?
CHALMERS: That's the whole point of getting people with a disability to have a bigger voice in the system. We go around the country and we hear all kinds of dramas with the NDIS. We take those concerns very seriously. Linda Burney is an absolute champion for Australians with a disability. I have every confidence she will listen to all of those messages and we will do what we can to make it better.
KARVELAS: This is a particular interest of mine, just before I let you go, Newstart. Yes, you have a review. I will not push you on whether you get rid of the review, I accept you have a review. But I want to know your time frame. When will we see the rise? Because Linda Burney tells me 18 months for a review. Does that mean in a third Bowen Budget we might see a rise in Newstart?
CHALMERS: I am not prepared to commit to that, as you'd expect, at the moment. Linda is in charge of the review itself. She has a good handle on how long it will take.
KARVELAS: If you don't do it in your first term, how can anyone take you seriously that you are actually genuinely interested in this?
CHALMERS: There is a big hypothetical there about winning office in May.
KARVELAS: (Laughs) Well, obviously I am assuming. I mean, everything we talk about with your plans is an assumption.
CHALMERS: OK, well there is an long way to go. I guess my point is, we will get a high-quality review, guided by Linda Burney, and Chris and the rest of the then Cabinet if we win office will consider that at the time. We understand that people on Newstart are doing it very, very tough. We said that all along, we want to get a good outcome. We want to make sure it's well informed.
KARVELAS: Jim Chalmers, thanks for coming in.
CHALMERS: Thank you Patricia.
ENDS
