E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS BREAKFAST
TUESDAY, 31 MARCH 2020

SUBJECTS: Economic response to Coronavirus; Wage subsidies; National debt; Assistance for Virgin; Labor’s constructive approach.

LISA MILLAR, ABC NEWS BREAKFAST: Good morning, Jim Chalmers.

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Good morning, Lisa.

MILLAR: And the bird sounds in the background as well. Just what we need on breakfast television. Is Labor going to support -

CHALMERS: Live from my backyard Lisa with all the crows.

MILLAR: Yes. Is Labor going to support this?

CHALMERS: I would think so, Lisa. We have described this as a step in the right direction. We welcome the Government's change of heart. It was only last week they were saying this is a bad idea when we were saying it's a good idea. If they've had a change of heart that's a good thing. No doubt there'll be issues to be ironed out and we'll play our usual responsible, constructive and supportive role, working through all of the details, making sure that this big program which does have the capacity to do a lot of good in our community works as it should.

MILLAR: Do you want to make changes to it? I mean, we're talking about something that's already half the nation's normal wage bill. It is quite extraordinary.

CHALMERS: It's a massive amount of money, Lisa. Inevitably there will be issues that arise as we work our way through the detail. I had a conversation with the Treasurer about it last night after dinner. We'll have briefings from the Treasury at some point, as will my colleagues, and we'll work our way through it. Some of the issues identified already are that people who have been a casual in a workplace for less than 12 months will miss out. There are issues about reattaching people who might have already been dismissed by their employer. There are all kinds of issues, but we'll work through that. What we've shown throughout this process, Lisa, is that when we engage constructively, we identify the gaps, the flaws and where there's a lack of urgency, and we work our way through and try to fix it. That's the approach we'll take here.

MILLAR: I think what stunned people yesterday as well was when we were talking about six million people, six million jobs. Do you think that this will enable us not to see those double figure unemployment numbers that had already been predicted, up to 13 per cent perhaps?

CHALMERS: It remains to be seen unfortunately. It will definitely do some good in preventing some of those layoffs but how many layoffs it will prevent we don't really know yet. This is an extraordinary economic challenge which flows from a diabolical health crisis. It seems to get more serious by the day. We don't yet know where unemployment will peak. Certainly, a lot of people have lost their jobs already. One of the criticisms that we have made is that the Government delaying bringing in something like this, while they criticized it because it came from us and from the unions, has made life difficult for more people. We want to get it in place as soon as possible. The payments don't flow until May. We want to work through those details too. It is a good step and it's a step in the right direction. We welcome it. We support the Government's change of heart. If there are ways to make it better between now and when the Parliament sits, then we'll try and do that.

MILLAR: What do you think about Virgin looking for a $1.4 billion loan rescue?

CHALMERS: No doubt the airlines, not just Virgin, are in a world of pain right now. They've got some serious difficulties which flow from the various travel bans and the serious slowdown in interstate travel as well. We're sympathetic to their general calls for some more assistance. The first package obviously wasn't enough. There was a subsequent package announced by the Deputy Prime Minister. My colleague Catherine King has been in constant contact with the airlines and with the Government to see what better deal we can get here. What form that takes is something for the Government to determine. But again, we want to see the airlines survive this difficult period. We'll play a constructive role in suggesting where they could get more support from the Government.

MILLAR: Wherever we end up, with how many billions spent here, to try and save the economy, someone's going to have to pay for it down the end. How is that going to work out? How long is Australia going to be in debt?

CHALMERS: On the indications that we have now, Lisa, I think we're headed for a generation of debt unfortunately. The thing that people probably don't perfectly appreciate is that debt had already more than doubled over the last six or seven years. So we already had an issue with it in our Budget. Now clearly that's going to skyrocket. But the most pressing priority is that we support workers, businesses, communities, families and pensioners through this difficult period. That will come with a big price tag, already something like $213 or $214 billion in direct stimulus. That's appropriate. We've been very supportive of that. One of the consequences of this is that we will be saddled as a nation with a generation of debt. It might be something like a trillion dollars by the time the Government's finished.

MILLAR: So, your own young children will be well into their adulthood before we can say that was the end of that period of time?

CHALMERS: It remains to be seen, Lisa, but we're already heading up towards $800 billion worth of gross debt. It's conceivable that that heads north from here, particularly with an extra $130 billion spent yesterday. The Government will tally it all up in their Budget. The point that I'm making is that Australians do need to be ready for a long period where the Federal Budget is in debt and it will take a long time to pay that off. Our highest priority is to support people through here. You mentioned the children of this country. It's very important that we support their parents and their grandparents through this difficult time, and that we try and prevent an even deeper, more horrific downturn in the economy. That's what we're in the kart for. That's why we've been so supportive of what the Government's been putting forward.

MILLAR: Anyone privately aggrieved within the Labor Party that you are offering this kind of support in comparison to what happened during the GFC? I know Josh Frydenberg last night was asked on 7.30 whether perhaps he now had some sympathy for the big decisions that had faced the Labor Government then.

CHALMERS: We're certainly being far more responsible during this period than the Liberals and Nationals were during the GFC. I think that's self-evident. It's not the most important issue right now but I think in time people will realise that more than a decade of the Liberals and Nationals rubbish about what Australians achieved together under Rudd and Swan during the Global Financial Crisis was just that, it was rubbish all along. That's what we're discovering now. We should have had enough of the wrong-headed criticism of what Australia achieved then. Australia achieved a remarkable thing then, avoiding recession when so many other countries that we compare ourselves to did not. That was a remarkably successful period for Australia. What we want to see now, having passed the test 10, 11 or 12 years ago, we want Australia to pass the test under this Government now.

MILLAR: Jim Chalmers, thank you.

CHALMERS: Thank you, Lisa.

ENDS