E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RN BREAKFAST
TUESDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 2016
SUBJECT/S: US election; local jobs; One Nation in Queensland; inclusive economic growth
FRAN KELLY: Bill Shorten is campaigning in Queensland this week, where both Labor and the LNP are under threat from Pauline Hanson and One Nation. Jim Chalmers is a Queenslander. He's also the Shadow Finance Minister and he says politicians from across the spectrum should start engaging with voters who feel quote, "trampled by economic change" and stop treating them with sneering, snobby disdain. Jim Chalmers, welcome to Breakfast.
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Good morning Fran, how are you?
KELLY: I'm well thank you, Jim. Donald Trump's driving policy slogan throughout the presidential campaign - and we heard it again in that interview - was America First. Just days later Bill Shorten has started trumpeting an Australia First policy - build Australia first, buy Australia first, employ Australia first. Just how spooked is Labor by the way blue-collar voters deserted the Democrats in America last week?
CHALMERS: I think we need to learn the lessons of that American election and also what happened here in Australia in the Senate. But I don't think it's accurate to say that these are positions that were struck overnight. They're entirely consistent with the sorts of things that Bill has been saying throughout the year and indeed throughout his leadership.
KELLY: Is pretty clear though – Australia first, America first, this major speech and tour comes in the days after the Trump election. It does seem linked.
CHALMERS: Bill has spent more time in regional Queensland than any leader that I can remember. This is his 20th day today in regional Queensland. So I don't think even a tour is especially new. It's something Bill's done for some time and he's held town hall meetings up and down the Queensland coast, which is a terrific thing. Our position has been consistent, and our position is this: Australia has no choice but to be an open, trading economy. We can't turn back the clock or put up walls and our people are good enough to succeed in the global context. But the challenge for us, and really the responsibility for us, is to make sure that economy works for more people and that we get the best deal within that for Australian workers; that we have growth which is inclusive and work that is rewarded and that we have a good industrial relations system and a meaningful safety net. Those have been our positions for as long as I can remember, Fran. But the US election and what's happened in the Senate here has given that a new focus.
KELLY: But also a temporary work force from overseas has been required by employers in this country for a long, long time now; many, many years. So while in your speech, which you gave yesterday – Hillary, Hanson and the Economics of Our Political Predicament – you make that point that Australia can't put up walls or turn inwards. Isn't that exactly what we are doing with 457s, because it is a plan to shut down, or shut out, foreign workers? The truth is we've already brought in 45,000 temporary protection visa workers under TPVs this year. It's a drop in the ocean.
CHALMERS: At a time when we've got pockets of high unemployment, when we've got very high youth unemployment and we've got underemployment the highest it's ever been since the records began in 1978, it's not just responsible or sensible, it's absolutely essential that we do what we can to make sure that where there are job vacancies, they are filled by Australians. That's not an unrealistic position to have.
KELLY: But they are. 45,000 TPVs is, as I say, a drop in the ocean in terms of the number of jobs and people unemployed and unemployment numbers every year.
CHALMERS: We want to make sure that where foreign workers are employed in Australia, that's based on genuine need. We want to make sure that where there are jobs available and Australians are qualified to fill them that Australians fill those positions. Again not an unreasonable position to have. We want to make sure that the list is appropriate for the positions that are on there and Brendan O'Connor was on AM talking about that a little bit earlier. It's always desirable, but not always possible, to have Australians fill those jobs and we want to make sure that the regulations and the rules surrounding the use of foreign workers are appropriate for Australians too.
KELLY: One Nation is taking credit for Labor's 457 crackdown and your Australians first push. Pauline Hanson tweeted yesterday: "It seems Labor's now taking its cues from One Nation. Good to see." Why shouldn't everyone, really, look at this and see it as a blatant grab by Labor for One Nation voters?
CHALMERS: Well this is essentially the policy we took to the election, before Malcolm Turnbull's double dissolution let Pauline Hanson into the Senate. So I think that's an entirely dishonest position to have. You can see why Pauline Hanson would make that sort of claim, but it doesn't stack up.
KELLY: Ok, so Bill Shorten's going to announce this review of 457s. He said Labor in Government would have a review of 457 visas. When he's in Townsville, he'll make that announcement. He's in Queensland for a few days. About a dozen seats there are being viewed as potential gains for One Nation at next year's state election. So Labor has a lot to lose, as does the LNP, of course, in Queensland at the state election. You're a Queenslander, you're pretty plugged in up there, we know. How vulnerable is Labor in central and northern Queensland in seats like Bundaberg, places like Townsville, Rockhampton, Cairns.
CHALMERS: I think we're on the front foot in regional Queensland, because we've got a better message. We're more prepared to listen and learn from the real economic concerns that people have up and down the coast and throughout the Queensland regions. As I said before, Bill's spending his 20th day there this year alone. So I think we're on the front foot there and we'd be very competitive in terms of picking up new seats up and down the coast in places like Gladstone, places like Mackay and Cairns.
KELLY: Because Pauline Hanson is talking about One Nation ultimately holding Government in Queensland, having a One Nation premier. Their high watermark in Queensland was in 1998 when One Nation won 11 seats and 23 per cent of the vote. Are you thinking it's going to be anything like that next year?
CHALMERS: We don't take the political threat from One Nation lightly. We vigorously contest the views that Pauline Hanson and others put into the political market place. But we also do our best to listen to the real concerns that people who are prepared to vote for One Nation have. My speech yesterday was really about that, because at the end of the day, Fran, we've really got three choices when we respond to Hanson and in the US to Trump.
The first one is to dismiss their voters and their concerns. That's a big problem and a big mistake and I think Hillary Clinton learned that with her "basket of deplorables" gaffe during her own campaign. We take One Nation voters very seriously and we don't dismiss or demean them.
The second strategy, which is the Turnbull Government's strategy, is to really try to out-do Hanson, or at least copy her, on things like migration and that's why we had that ridiculous, misguided attempt a couple of Sundays ago to wedge the Labor Party on that lifetime ban on people coming to Australia. That is equally counter-productive as a strategy.
The only one that will work is to try to address the real concerns that people have in the economy. I mentioned before underemployment, there's also record low wages growth and the sense that as the economy changes, people are being left behind. And that's really Labor's focus. And the unfortunate thing, I heard the Prime Minister on 730 last night talk about how the key is economic –
KELLY: He's right, isn't he?
CHALMERS: Malcolm Turnbull's whole agenda will make the problems that are driving people to One Nation worse. He will make the economy less fair. He will give real people less of a stake in our economic success.
KELLY: Why, if he's all about jobs and growth?
CHALMERS: Because he wants to hollow out Medicare and education. He wants to give big companies a $50 billion tax cut. He wants to go soft on multi-national tax evasion. He wants to go after people's penalty rates. The whole agenda will make this problem that we are describing much worse in this country.
KELLY: Nevertheless, and just finally, Labor's announcement on 457 – this notion that we've got to shut out foreign workers so Aussies can get the jobs. I mean, Paul Keating would be horrified at this, wouldn't he? Troy Bramston reminding us in his biography of Paul Keating this week quoting Keating, criticising Bill Shorten's Labor for veering too far from the political centre. He says that's why Labor's primary vote is so low, making Labor unelectable. He was the Treasurer and the Prime Minister who opened up Australia's markets, who pushed free trade in the region. And here's Labor now trying to keep out foreign workers.
CHALMERS: I'll let Paul speak for himself, but I think that what we've been saying, including in this interview what I've told you Fran, is that we support an open trading economy. We want Australia to be successful in Asia and in the world beyond. Our challenge is to make sure that our people can succeed in that global context, that the global economy works for them and not against them. That's what our policy agenda is all about and, as I was just saying, that's why Malcolm Turnbull's policy agenda is so damaging.
KELLY: Jim Chalmers, thank you very much for joining us.
CHALMERS: Thank you, Fran.
