E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RN DRIVE
THURSDAY, 23 AUGUST 2018
 
SUBJECT/S: Liberals’ division and dysfunction; Queensland; National Energy Guarantee.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Jim Chalmers is the Shadow Finance Minister and I spoke to him a little while ago. Jim Chalmers, welcome to the program.
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thanks Patricia.
 
KARVELAS: The last time the House of Reps was adjourned in this manner was in 1971. What'd you make of the scenes in the House today?
 
CHALMERS: What happened in the House of Representatives today is probably the strangest thing that's happened in Australian politics since Whitlam was dismissed. It was really just the theatre of the absurd. The fact that the Government entirely shut down the House of Representatives because they weren't quite sure who the Prime Minister was, or whether there were any ministers left or anything like that really was horribly embarrassing, not just for the Government, but for the country too.
 
KARVELAS: Ok, but given the kind of crisis the Government was in, and has admitted it's trying to sort out its leadership issues, isn't it just reasonable that you give them some time to do that?
 
CHALMERS: (Laughs) Oh Patricia, nice try, but there is nothing reasonable about shutting down the Commonwealth Parliament because you are such a dumpster fire of personal conflict and misguided ambition that you can't even work out who the leader is or whether or not there are ministers ready to serve. I think it was an appalling look. There was nothing reasonable about it. Not in my lifetime has there been a more disgraceful treatment of the Parliament than there was today. 
 
KARVELAS: OK, but if we're talking about the treatment of the office of Prime Minister, Labor was also guilty of cutting down its Prime Ministers. Haven't the Liberals just continued the tradition in which Labor started?
 
CHALMERS: We learned a lot of valuable lessons in that period, Patricia. We've had remarkable stability in the five years since then. The disappointing thing is that the other mob didn't learn from the mistakes that we've made, which we freely acknowledged during that period. We've been very upfront about it. We've changed our rules to make it much harder for that sort of stuff to go on. As a consequence of that, and as a consequence of Bill Shorten's unifying leadership, we've had five years now with the same leader, and the other guys will choose their third leader over the same period tomorrow.
 
KARVELAS: From Labor's perspective, which leader would you rather go up against in the federal election? We know that Julie Bishop may run. We also know, of course, Peter Dutton is trying to campaign. He's made it quite clear. Also, Scott Morrison. Who do you want to go up against?
 
CHALMERS: Who knows, there might be more tomorrow by the time the ballot rolls around. We don't have a preference, Patricia. I think whoever they pick will be temporary in the sense it will just be another element in the internal strife they have.
 
KARVELAS: Is it temporary because you're saying you're going to win the election now?
 
CHALMERS: No I'm saying it's temporary because the jilted part of the party will not just cop any of the people that you just mentioned. I mean temporary in the sense that it won't end the civil war in the Liberal Party, and they'll still have the same misguided priorities. The main thing, I think - the most important thing - apart from the fact that for as long as they brawl with each other, middle Australia won't get a look in, is the fact that the Liberal Party is already pretty nasty and pretty narrow and pretty extreme. All of those characters that you just mentioned would make it even more so. They would shift the party to the right, as they've said over the course of this week that they intend to do. And what that means is that middle Australia, mainstream people, won't get a look in because the party will be chasing their base voters, and I think that's a real problem for Australia.
 
KARVELAS: OK, so Peter Dutton is from your home state of Queensland. Do you believe he'd give the Government and advantage in that state, because clearly that's what a lot of Queensland MPs believe?
 
CHALMERS: That's the story he's trying to tell, but I don't necessarily think that would be the case. We did a bit of check in the last couple of days. He only spends, on average, about two days a year in regional Queensland and that's largely to visit the shopping centre he owns in Townsville. So I don't think he will be some big vote winner or vote magnet in regional Queensland. And I think a lot of suburban areas around Brisbane will be absolutely appalled by his extreme and divisive politics.
 
KARVELAS: OK, so you're worried about his so-called divisive politics? Do you want to be specific about what you think it divisive? What you think he stands for that you're concerned about?
 
CHALMERS: I think of all the available options, he would make the sort of nastiness and narrowness and extreme nature of the Liberal Party worse on things like migration, definitely, and that's before you even get to some of the other concerns we have with him. He was voted as the worst Health Minister in I think the last 35 years; he was the most enthusiastic backer of the GP tax. There are a range of problems with Peter Dutton. But not just Peter Dutton; Scott Morrison's been at the scene of the crime for most of the atrocities of the last five years, as has Julie Bishop. So we don't have a preference, but I think this sense that Peter Dutton would somehow appeal to people in my home state, and particularly my home city, I think that's a myth.
 
KARVELAS: OK, you've mentioned this research you've done. You're clearly doing your homework about your future opponents?
 
CHALMERS: Of course we are. We'll have a new Prime Minister of Australia tomorrow. It's our responsibility to give Australia the unity and the stability it needs to make sure middle Australia is back front and centre in our considerations, and that means winning the election. We don't take the election outcome for granted. We're not cock-a-hoop about what's going on in the Parliament today because it's pretty horrible for Australia, and what we owe the Australian people is all of our best efforts to make sure we can get a proper, functioning Government back in again under Bill Shorten so we can have a Government that doesn't look like an episode of Survivor or The Bachelor and looks more like something that the people of Australia need and deserve. That's a Government that cares about them and not about itself.
 
KARVELAS: Given the turmoil of the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd years, do you have any sympathy for what the Coalition is going through?
 
CHALMERS: I think on a human level, the main thing I think of - as you know, I was a former staffer during those years - I do think about the staff and the colleagues who are involved in this. I have very strong memories. When there are these sorts of episodes, the staff are often not front of mind, so I do feel for them, and I feel for the families of people involved. So I think it's possible to have a concern at the human level, but understand that what's going on there is very damaging for the country itself.
 
KARVELAS: Labor often points out how united it is, but the Coalition was very united for years under Tony Abbott. It seems to be when you reach Government that the cracks begin to show. What makes you different?
 
CHALMERS: I think it was papered over in those Abbott years. I wouldn't necessarily share your assessment of that. But it's self-evident that the last few years of the Government have been very messy, and that we had our own issues more than five years ago. I'm just really confident that the rule changes that we made, plus of course Bill's own leadership style, which is very empowering and very unifying of his colleagues; I'm just supremely confident that if we get the opportunity to govern the country again, that we will be a united and stable and cohesive unit.
 
KARVELAS: Labor now has to work out its own policy on energy and reducing carbon emissions and lowering bills and all of that. Would it have been easier if the National Energy Guarantee had gotten up, and will it get your support if you win?
 
CHALMERS: It's hard to see what will happen to it. We're obviously a little bit hostage to whoever gets elected tomorrow and whatever they might propose, and if they want to negotiate with us or not. We've made our position pretty clear on the ACCC competitive aspect of it. We announced that policy on Sunday, which I spoke to you about earlier in the week, and we've also said we want a bit more ambition on emissions reduction and renewable energy and all of those sorts of things. So people know where we're coming from on energy. It remains to be seen whether we'd inherit a system or have to start from scratch. I think that's one of the very serious uncertainties that we're facing at the moment.
 
KARVELAS: Jim Chalmers, many thanks for your time.
 
CHALMERS: Thank you, Patricia.
 
ENDS