E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS SPEERS
TUESDAY, 29 JANUARY 2019

SUBJECTS: Liberals’ gaffes on jobs announcement; Liberals’ division and dysfunction; Economy not working for middle Australia; Scott Morrison’s scare mongering over Labor policies; dividend imputation; negative gearing
 
DAVID SPEERS: I spoke to the Shadow Finance Minister Jim Chalmers earlier. Jim Chalmers thanks very much for your time. The Prime Minister has essentially extended the employment target that the Government achieved during this term of Parliament. He wants 1.25 million new jobs created over the coming five years. Is there anything wrong with setting that sort of target.
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: That's a very charitable description of what he's done today, David. He's effectively reheated a target that Tony Abbott cooked up more than five years ago and he's actually made a hash of it. Remarkably, he's made a mess of this announcement. What he's actually proposing is a jobs growth rate which is slower than what is currently being experienced and yet faster than what Treasury is forecasting. And Scott Morrison was asked on radio this morning whether all of these 1.25 million jobs would be full-time jobs and he said that they would be, and he said that's been their record. He really should know that of the jobs created over the last five years, only 55 per cent of them have been full-time jobs. One of the problems we have in the labour market and the broader economy is we do have the growth in underemployment which is a big problem, as well as the stagnant wages and insecurity and all of the other things that people experience at work.
 
SPEERS: That's true, they haven't all been full-time jobs. Nonetheless, unemployment has fallen well below where it was when Labor was last in office. It is now at five per cent. Isn't that a good thing? 
 
CHALMERS: We welcome a strong headline figure when it comes to the unemployment rate, but I think if you speak to most people around the communities of Australia, their experience of the labour market is different to the kind of celebratory tone that Scott Morrison and others generally strike when they're talking about jobs. For a lot of people, work is insecure, wages are historically stagnant, and they're a really big problem for living standards in the economy. So I think there's a broader picture of jobs in this country which isn't encapsulated in what Scott Morrison is talking about today.
 
SPEERS: So what would Labor do to improve that situation, that problem you identify?
 
CHALMERS: When it comes to stagnant wages, there are a number of things we need to do. We need to fix the bargaining system of course so that workers and their employers are on a level playing field, so that they can work together to be more productive and also get those wage increases that they need and deserve. We need to crack down on dodgy labour hire, which is undercutting wages. We need to make sure that we are training our people more substantially so that they can get those good jobs, those well-paying jobs. All of those things together are far more important than setting this target that Scott Morrison has set today, and made such a hash of.
 
SPEERS: If you're going through that approach - drive up wages by making business spend more on salaries - how is that going to grow the economy?
 
CHALMERS: You grow the economy by investing in people, making sure that they have the skills and the ability to negotiate better wage outcomes for themselves. You get rid of some of the problems that are undercutting wages, whether it be dodgy labour hire or other things as well. And that's how you make sure that the economy can grow in a sustainable way, but also in an inclusive way. One of the problems we have right now is that the economy is growing slower than people would like. Economic growth is slowing in this country. But people don't have a stake in the growth that is happening. People feel with some justification that economic growth benefits somebody else at their expense, and that's because their wages are stagnant. It's because their living standards aren't keeping up. All of these sorts of things together mean that the people-facing part of the economy is much softer than the Government would have you believe. 
 
SPEERS: Do you accept the higher taxing approach that Labor's taking to the election won't grow the economy either?
 
CHALMERS: Two things about that, David. The two highest taxing governments in the history of this country are the ones led by Scott Morrison and led by John Howard. So the highest taxing governments in Australia have been Liberal Governments. That's the first point. That's just a factual point.
 
SPEERS: But isn't your plan for a higher tax take?
 
CHALMERS: I'm getting to that, David. It depends what you do to change the tax system. What we're proposing to do is to close down some of the loopholes or to change some of the loopholes, which overwhelmingly benefit the people who need them least in this country. And what that will do is it will mean that we can make the tax system fairer, we can pay down debt which has doubled on the Liberals' watch, and we can invest in the things we really care about, the things that will genuinely grow the economy in a sustainable and an inclusive way. It depends on which tax changes you are proposing.
 
SPEERS: Is it closing a loophole when, well, we read in the paper this morning about a retiree there in Queensland on I think around $40,000 income from his share portfolio. He reckons he'll lose around $12,000 a year from Labor's plan to end cash rebates for franking credits. Is that a loophole?
 
CHALMERS: It's something that's unsustainable. It's something that's not accessed by, I think, 92 per cent of the Australian population. I think it is something that needs to change. We've been upfront with people and said that we think that tax arrangement is unsustainable. No other country does it in the generous way that we do it. We want to go back to the system that existed in Paul Keating's day, before it was changed in the year 2000. And by doing that, we can make the tax system fairer, pay down debt that's accumulated under the Liberals and invest in growth and invest in people and the economy.
 
SPEERS: I understand that part of it, but just to be clear on this point - on negative gearing changes, you're grandfathering existing investments. Why not do that with the franking credits as well? People have made these investments in good faith, they're now living in retirement on that income. Why not grandfather those investments? 
 
CHALMERS: We've heard all of those arguments since we released the policy some months ago and I think even for people who disagree with what we're proposing, I think they at least recognise we have given people lots of warning, that this is what we intend to do. So that if and when a Shorten Labor Government is elected, we will have a mandate to make this change. We know it is not easy. We know that some people aren't in screaming agreement with what we're proposing to do but we think it's important. We need to raise that money so that we can do the things that we've identified.
 
SPEERS: What should a retiree like that do, whose living on their share income and their franking credit income? What should they do given the notice they've been given?
 
CHALMERS: I'm obviously not going to give investment advice to your viewers, David. That would be inappropriate and irresponsible. The point that we're making is people know where we're coming from. We've explained it, we've announced it some months ago. They know what our policy is, and they'll have plenty of notice that if a Bill Shorten Labor Government is elected, we do intend to make the tax system fairer, pay down debt and invest in economic growth in this country. 
 
SPEERS: Just one more on the negative gearing changes, there does still seem to be some confusion as to whether Labor's plans to end negative gearing for all but newly built properties - will it drive down house prices or not?
 
CHALMERS: The confusion is entirely the making of the Government, which has spent most of the summer with these sort of breathless lies about our policy. You're right that it won't end negative gearing entirely. If people negatively gear now, they can continue to do it. They also can continue to negatively gear newly constructed properties. What we've said about the impact all along is we agree with the Treasury modelling that the Government commissioned themselves, which said there would only be a modest impact on prices. We think the Government should 'fess up. That is the Treasury's position. They should stop this ridiculous and increasingly shrill scare campaign.
 
SPEERS: The reality is, you think it will be a modest impact. So what? A small decrease in house prices?
 
CHALMERS: No, I'm just referring to the Treasury modelling, David, which said that the impact would be modest. Some of the other private sector firms have come to the same conclusion.
 
SPEERS: And that's you view as well?
 
CHALMERS: The Treasury has advised the Government that there would be a modest impact on prices, and all we're asking for is the Government to be honest about that and upfront about that.
 
SPEERS: Shadow Finance Minister Jim Chalmers, thanks for joining us this afternoon.
 
CHALMERS: Thank you, David.
 
ENDS