E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RN DRIVE
MONDAY, 30 MARCH 2020

SUBJECTS: Economic response to Coronavirus; Wage subsidies; Engagement with the Government and National Cabinet. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS, ABC RN DRIVE: Jim Chalmers, welcome.

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Thanks very much Patricia and I'm pleased you've got Costa on later on, too. What a legend.

KARVELAS: He is a legend and we can talk about your gardening in a moment. Look, this package will have to go before the Parliament. Will Labor support it?

CHALMERS: We certainly think it is a step in the right direction, Patricia. We are going to have some briefings with the Government so that we can understand all the details and all of the ins-and-outs because it is a massive amount of money being invested. It's certainly a step in the right direction. Only last week, the Government was saying they didn't intend to go down this path so it's certainly a welcome change of heart. 

KARVELAS: The Government says this is better than what other countries are doing because it keeps employees connected to their employer. In fact, the Government says it's better than the UK system because that one, of course, allows for higher income earners to get a bigger part of the slice, and also more generous than the New Zealand system. What do you make of that argument? 

CHALMERS: Different countries are going about it in different ways. Some of them do maintain a link between the employer and the worker. We've said all along we think that's the most important objective. All of the assistance that has gone to largely small- and medium-sized businesses so far has been welcome, but it hasn't really ticked that main objective. This is a step towards doing that. We obviously welcome that. We want to make sure as many people as possible avoid those unemployment queues which are already unacceptably long. 

KARVELAS: The payment of $1,500 a fortnight is the same for everyone, whether they're full time, casual, part time, or self-employed. Is that fairer than the way the UK is doing this? 

CHALMERS: It's certainly more generous in relation to what does for low income earners than for high income earners. That's a fact of what they are proposing. Again, different countries have gone about it in different ways. The UK is not the only country that's got a scheme that we can compare ourselves to. We will ask our questions and seek out briefings about what the Government expects the impact of that will be. But on the face of it, again, this is a step in the right direction.

KARVELAS: Danielle Wood from the Grattan Institute says the benefit of having waited and seen what other countries have done is that Australia has probably got one of the best models now - it's better than the UK's and better than New Zealand's. Do you concede that waiting and giving this a thorough look has ended with a better product or a better offer for workers? 

CHALMERS: I don't, Patricia, and with respect to Danielle, who I think is an outstanding economist, I think that every day there's been a delay here has meant more people joined those unemployment queues. The delay here has definitely damaged people's lives. Our preference would have been that the Government didn't spend a week dismissing it, in some cases ridiculing it, and instead got on with implementing it. That's what they’re doing now. Delays are very damaging for ordinary people. There’s lots of anxiety for understandable reasons out there in the workforce. We have been overwhelmingly constructive and supportive but one of the criticisms we have made is that the Government has been a bit slow off the mark with these measures. Ideally, there'd be more urgency and not less. 

KARVELAS: This is their third package. You say they've been slow off the mark. They doubled the unemployment benefit. They were right out there announcing all of that. What's been slow about their announcements? 

CHALMERS: It's not out the door yet, Patricia. Even when it comes to that first package which was announced a few weeks ago, that support doesn't flow until tomorrow. There have been delays. Not to be partisan about it but objectively these measures are kicking in later than is ideal. People don't need support in a month or two months' time, they need it right now. People are losing their jobs right now. People are finding it hard to make ends meet right now. There has been a lack of urgency. A lot of what the Government's proposing has been welcome. We supported it. We voted or it in the Parliament. We want the Government to succeed here but sometimes there has been a lack of urgency and it's our job and the responsibility of the Opposition to responsibly inject some of that urgency.

KARVELAS: If you're just tuning in, this is RN Drive. I'm Patricia Karvelas and my guest is Jim Chalmers. He's the Shadow Treasurer. 0418 226 576 is our text line if you want to text in. What do you make of the Government's announcement? This is a $39,000 a year payment. It's still a big pay cut for a lot of people but coupled with the moratorium on evictions and banks helping with loan repayments, when you put all those things together is it enough of a lifeline for people?

CHALMERS: It remains to be seen, Patricia. Certainly, all of those things that you just ran through are very welcome developments. Most of those cases have been steps that we've been calling for and we're pleased to see them implemented. When you bundle it all up, Australians are getting some assistance through a difficult period. So far obviously it hasn't been enough to prevent a lot of these mass layoffs. It hasn't been enough to prevent people being very anxious about how they'll make ends meet over the next little while so if the Government needs to take additional steps after this, obviously we'll be supportive and constructive in the way that we engage with them on that, too. 

KARVELAS: Federal Labor has been asking to be brought into National Cabinet. Instead, the Prime Minister said there'll be a weekly meeting now. Have you accepted that?

CHALMERS: We'll obviously be part of the meeting. We've had one meeting, about half a dozen or so of us with half a dozen of the most senior members of the Government. We met in the Cabinet room two Sundays ago. Obviously, those opportunities to engage are welcome, but they're no substitute for having at least Anthony Albanese in the National Cabinet. I think that would have sent a good signal to people about the bipartisan way that we are working together to get people through this crisis. The other issue about that, Patricia, is that the Government is still ultimately responsible for the steps that they take. Whether we have a conversation for half an hour or an hour once a week doesn't change that. We've got a slightly different responsibility to the Government. They're responsible for the decisions they take. Our responsibility is to be as constructive as possible, as bipartisan as possible, and as responsible as possible, but also to point out where we think the Government can do more or can do things more urgently. We've been doing that so far. These changes to the wages subsidy, renters, and the income test, in many instances, there's been a vindication of the constructive role that Labor has played in supporting what the Government's proposing, but also pointing out where they can do more, do things better or do things more quickly. We're pleased to see that some of the points that we've made have been taken up by the Government.

KARVELAS: Jim, thanks for your time. 

CHALMERS: Thanks, Patricia.

ENDS