E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC THE BUSINESS
THURSDAY, 23 JULY 2020
 
SUBJECTS: Budget Update; JobKeeper and JobSeeker. 
 
PHILLIP LASKER, HOST:  Jim Chalmers, thanks for joining The Business.
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Thanks for having me on the program, Phil.
 
LASKER: Well the pandemic is unprecedented. You've got to cut the Government a fair bit of slack haven't you? I mean it's almost impossible to predict anything?
 
CHALMERS: The Reserve Bank has released detailed forecasts, the private sector’s released detailed forecasts, Labor during the GFC released three sets of updated four-year forecasts in a six-month period in the worst of that downturn. I think it's not too much to ask for the Government to release a full budget update. Their main message today seems to be that Australians have to wait a couple of months now for a proper plan for jobs, and that's not good enough either.
 
LASKER: But the jobs situation, isn't that panning out better than we might have expected in May?
 
CHALMERS: That's cold comfort for the millions of Australians who are already unemployed. The defining feature of what the Government released today is their expectation that another 240,000 Australians will lose their job between now and Christmas. We want to continue to be a responsible and constructive Opposition but we need a plan to engage with.
 
LASKER: So what would you do to prevent those 240,000 jobs from being lost before Christmas?
 
CHALMERS: Clearly in the near-term, the Government could invest in public housing. It's a good labour intensive stimulus, there are a lot of jobs in it, and it builds something with lasting benefit. It's something that is good for the most vulnerable people in our society. That's one of the ideas that we've proposed. The other thing, which you would appreciate I'm sure, is that business investment is a big problem during this recession, but it was actually a big problem before the recession as well. One of the reasons business investment’s been so weak is because there's been energy policy uncertainty. We want to join with the Government and agree a plan for cheaper and cleaner energy. We think that would be good for business investment and if it’s good for investment, it's good for jobs.
 
LASKER: One of the things that people say might boost business investment is industrial relations reform. The Government seems to want to stick with that and take the opportunity. The Government would say that a lot of the jobs that have been created, particularly for young people and women more recently, have been because of the industrial relations flexibility we've been seeing around JobKeeper. So isn't that working? Isn't that something to stick with?
 
CHALMERS: We engaged really constructively when the Government said, let's have some temporary arrangements for the businesses which are going through such a tough time that they qualify for JobKeeper. We don't think the Government has yet made a convincing and compelling case to make some of those changes permanent. We're a bit wary of the Government here because we don't want them to use this recession as an excuse to permanently lock in arrangements which disadvantage workers unfairly, so we'll have a look at what the Government proposes.
 
LASKER: But let's face it, workers don't have much bargaining power at the moment, do they? It's either, do you want a job or not?
 
CHALMERS: The answer to that, I agree with that, is not more insecurity. The answer to that is not to try and make temporary arrangements permanent. If the Government's got a proposal there let's see it.
 
LASKER: Do we need to worry about our debt and deficit?
 
CHALMERS: The first priority is jobs. We've said all along that we understand that the Government needs to intervene here for Australians, to support their jobs, to try and prevent people losing their jobs, but the debt will have to be repaid in time. The best way to do that is to grow the economy. We missed an opportunity today to hear a plan from the Government to do that.
 
LASKER: So you would rule out increasing taxes as a way of reducing debt?
 
CHALMERS: Look, we'll finalise our policies on the budget closer to the election when we know what situation we'd inherit. Our first priority and the best way to fix the budget is to fix the economy. 
 
LASKER: And in growing the economy would Labor have spent more than the Government?
 
CHALMERS: Clearly there's a case to be made to spend some of this money more effectively, but equally a case to consider some further stimulus. That's the point that many of the expert commentators have made today in responding to this half-update from the Government. Those sorts of things should be considered. The priority should be jobs. Every dollar that is spent here needs to be judged against its effectiveness and the best way to measure its effectiveness is what it means for employment.
 
LASKER: Jim Chalmers, thanks very much for joining us.
 
CHALMERS: Thank you, Phil.
 
ENDS