JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN

MARK BUTLER MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING
MEMBER FOR HINDMARSH

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
DOORSTOP INTERVIEW
PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA
MONDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 2021

SUBJECTS: COVID in WA; Craig Kelly; Vaccination program; PM at press Club; Debt and waste; Jobkeeper and JobSeeker; Executive bonuses; Net zero emissions; Myanmar; James Shipton and ASIC; Media code; Aged care; Health advice.

MARK BUTLER, SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH AND AGEING: Thanks for coming out. I’ll make a few remarks and hand over to Jim, who will tackle all the difficult questions as well, as I understand it. First of all, can I say that all of our thoughts today are with the Western Australian community. We understand the WA Premier is standing up very shortly to give an update, obviously to his own state, but it's an update the entire Australian community will be watching closely. What we've seen over the last several weeks, in particular, is that where there are these, hopefully, small outbreaks, a quick, sharp lockdown followed by good contact tracing regimes can bring these outbreaks under control relatively quickly. So we hope that will be the case in Western Australia as well. In the meantime, all of our thoughts go out to them to deal with what will be a very difficult week for the whole of that state.

Can I say, this reinforces the importance of the community and all state governments, particularly MPs and Senators, following good public health advice. And it's really in that vein that we were very disappointed that at the Press Club today Scott Morrison chose not to condemn Craig Kelly's ongoing fear mongering around the work of the TGA and its vaccination programme. Craig Kelly is a dangerous menace to this vaccination programme and it is beyond time that Scott Morrison found the backbone to pull him into line. It's also enormously disappointing that Scott Morrison has not condemned the very irresponsible comments from Peter Dutton this morning, where he called the Western Australian lockdown, quote, “a political slogan”. Members of this government continue to get away with playing politics with what is a very important public health challenge for this country and it's high time that Scott Morrison pulled all of those MPs - including very senior ministers like Peter Dutton - into line, because he has form on this issue.

Can I say that we welcome the additional funding that was committed today for the vaccine rollout programme. We look forward to examining the details of that funding more closely. As the new Shadow Health Minister I intend to take the same constructive approach that Chris Bowen lead on behalf of Labor, along with Anthony Albanese. It's important that we succeed in this programme. The Australian community expects the opposition to work as constructively as we can with this government. We are conscious though of the danger of Scott Morrison continuing to over promise and under deliver on this question. The Australian community remembers that last year he said Australia was in the front of the queue in the global vaccine rollout. Today though, we've seen tens-of-millions of people in the US and Canada, the UK, EU and other countries, have already received their vaccinations and still not a single Australian has received that vaccination. It is critically important now that Scott Morrison deliver on his promise to have four million Australians vaccinated by the end of March. If that is not able to be delivered then his promise to vaccinate the whole of the country by the end of October, while also delivering the flu vaccine, which obviously we have to do in in winter, will be very, very hard to meet.

There are some important questions that go to that commitment. What is the situation with the vaccine suppliers? We're still not clear when the Pfizer and the importation of AstraZeneca vaccines will be delivered, will be subject to the batch testing by the TGA, and able to roll out through the community. Also, when will we receive details about the single-entry point, the online data entry point, which will be required for people to make an appointment to receive their vaccinations. Still no detail for consumers, no detail for providers, and it's also high time for the government to come clean on their negotiations to diversify the supply of vaccines, particularly how are we going with negotiations for the highly effective Moderna vaccine, but also the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Can I hand over to Jim to say a few words.

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: Thanks very much, Mark. This Prime Minister is known as somebody who doesn't govern in the interests of Australians. He's someone who's known for being long on spin, short on substance. And he's someone who has racked up a trillion dollars in debt, because so much money has been wasted on rorts, and dodgy deals, and government advertising. And nothing he said at the Press Club today, address those very real concerns that people have with this Prime Minister.

It's true that parts of the economy are recovering but it's equally true that many workers and small businesses, communities and industries are still struggling. The Prime Minister says there's no room in the budget to help struggling workers and small businesses, but he's had no trouble whatsoever finding room in his trillion dollars of debt for government advertising, and market research, and sports rorts, and dodgy land deals and taxpayer funded executive bonuses. One of the reasons why this Prime Minister and Treasurer don't have enough to show for their trillion dollars in debt is because so much money has been wasted. Time and time again, they say that there's no blank cheque to help people who are genuinely struggling in the economy – that’s because they've been so busy writing cheques to mates, writing cheques for advertising, dodgy deals, and rorts and executive bonuses. If this government wasted less money on those rorts, they would have more money to support the workers and small businesses of this country who are genuinely still struggling in an economy which still has its share of challenges. Today at the Press Club he had the opportunity to set out what he would do for those two million Australians who can't find a job or can't find enough hours to support their loved ones, all of those millions of Australians who can't get ahead because wages were stagnant before and they're especially stagnant now, this was his opportunity today and he missed it.

He also had the opportunity today to say something meaningful about cleaner and cheaper energy, and particularly about net zero emissions by 2050. He missed the opportunity today to commit to net zero emissions by 2050. He missed an opportunity to say unequivocally that we will provide the jobs and opportunities which will flow from that commitment. He missed an opportunity to join with 120 countries, all the states and territories, the business community, the peak organisations, the unions and others ,who have all made a commitment to net zero emissions, because they understand something that the Prime Minister doesn't, which is net zero emissions is all about jobs and opportunities for Australians. For as long as this Prime Minister continues to play party room politics over cleaner and cheaper energy, Australians will be denied those jobs and opportunities and be increasingly isolated in the international community.

A final point I'd make is about Myanmar. We are incredibly concerned about the troubling developments in Myanmar. We want to see that country's ongoing democratic transition respected and strengthened, not undermined. We obviously condemn, in the strongest terms, any actions in Myanmar which compromise that country's efforts to strengthen the democratic transition that countries like Australia want to see. And clearly if the government offers briefings to Penny Wong and others, we will take up that offer.

JOURNALIST: Did you read anything into the Prime Minister's language when he said it's now preferable to reach net zero emissions by 2050?

CHALMERS: The Prime Minister once again is prioritising party room politics over the jobs and opportunities which will flow from cleaner and cheaper energy. He had an opportunity at the Press Club to make a commitment and he missed it. His position on net zero emissions has not changed. If he wants to commit to net zero emissions, he should just say so. The reason he's not doing that is because he's playing party room politics, he doesn’t understand the uncertainty which has been created by his 22 different energy policies. And instead of addressing that uncertainty, he added to it. One of the reasons why we haven't had the business investment we need in our economy, not just in the last year but the last seven years, is because there's been so much uncertainty over energy policy. And what we've done as a Labor opposition is to try and be constructive about this. We wrote to the Prime Minister – Anthony Albanese and Mark Butler wrote to the Prime Minister – and said we are prepared to encourage certainly in the energy market, so that businesses can invest, and we can get that cleaner and cheaper energy and all of those jobs and opportunities. And at every turn, instead of clarifying the government's position, the Prime Minister has added to that uncertainty.

JOURNALIST: Just on JobKeeper, the Prime Minister seemed to indicate today that a big reason this is being wound up in March is because the taxpayer can’t have this wage subsidy going on forever. You've advocated for it to continue in industries like tourism, how long would you propose it continue and how long would that go for?

CHALMERS: First of all, nobody's suggesting to the Prime Minister that JobKeeper continue forever. We've made that clear since day one. When we first proposed a wage subsidy - and the Prime Minister said it was a bad idea - ever since then, we have said that this is a temporary payment. We've made that incredibly clear. But equally, we've said that JobKeeper and other types of economic support should be tailored to the economic conditions. And while some parts of the economy are recovering many parts of it are still struggling. If you go to Cairns and speak to tourism operators there impacted by the closure of the international border, they are on JobKeeper life support and the government shouldn't be pulling the plug. So, we say to the government what we've been saying all along - don't be in a rush to withdraw this economic support in places like Cairns and elsewhere, it will mean that small businesses hit the fence and workers lose their jobs. Don't be in a rush to do that, be smart about it, tailor it to the economic conditions.

JOURNALIST: Do you think that people in Cairns would punish the government at the next election if they allow these jobs to go?

CHALMERS: I think they would conclude, if the government doesn't extend JobKeeper for the small businesses and workers of Cairns, they will conclude that this is a Prime Minister doesn't govern in their interests. It is abundantly clear to anyone who cares about the plight of workers and small businesses in this economy that some will be impacted for longer than March. This pandemic is not going to disappear on the last weekend in March and nor will the economic consequences. Some businesses, and workers, and industries, and communities, and towns will feel that more than others and the Prime Minister needs to be cognisant of that. He said today that the most important thing he can do is listen. Well, he should listen to the small businesses and workers in places like Cairns, and tailor the economic support, including JobKeeper to recognise that the closure of the international border will hurt them for longer than the last week in March.

JOURNALIST: On JobSeeker, the PM was asked today what the post-March rate of JobSeeker should be. What do you think it should be and why haven’t we heard a number from Labor before the coronavirus supplement does run out in March?

CHALMERS: We’ve made it really clear for some time now that we don't want to see JobSeeker return to the old $40 a day rate. It's not good for job seekers, it makes it very hard for people to support themselves while they look for work, but it's also not good for the economy which desperately needs money circulating in shops and small businesses. We've had that view for some time. It's entirely reasonable that we wait to see what number the government nominates and also what the budget position is that we would inherit before we commit to a final figure. No opposition in memory has played a more prominent role in seeking to increase what used to be Newstart and is now JobSeeker, then we have. $40 a day is inadequate. The government is leaving people in the lurch and leaving people in the dark when it comes to the new JobSeeker rate, and if it goes back to $40 a day they'll be leaving people behind.

JOURNALIST: Earlier today Anthony Albanese said this government is a ‘do nothing’ government. Do you agree with him?

CHALMERS: I do. I mean, this is a government which makes lots of announcements and then doesn't follow through. And at the Press Club today, despite a trillion dollars in debt, despite more than an hour on his feet, Australians are none the wiser about what he intends to do about those two million people who can't get enough work to support their loved ones.

JOURNALIST: You might have done something differently, turning back the clock, but is preventing 3.6 million Australians from going into poverty doing nothing?

CHALMERS: Well, that's precisely why we proposed measures like JobKeeper in the first place. Of all the criticisms that you might make of us, you couldn't say that we haven't been constructive in the last year. We’ve acknowledged all along, that when it comes to JobKeeper for example, we're pleased that they picked up our idea and ran with it. And a lot of people have maintained their connection with employers who wouldn't have without JobKeeper. We've said that hundreds of times. That's a good thing. But equally, the way that the government has wasted some of that money on sports rorts for example, or government advertising, or market research, or dodgy land deals, or a dud NBN, or whatever it might be, has prevented them doing something more meaningful for people who still need help. That's our criticism.

JOURNALIST: Mr Butler, you mentioned the goal of four million vaccinations by the end of March when they announced Pfizer had been approved. The government already pushed that back to April, so they're not on track as it is. What kind of detail would you like to see in terms of the number of weekly vaccine doses given out as a goal? And have you sought a briefing from the Health Department at all to get up to speed on that vaccine rollout?

BUTLER: Yeah, of course we’ll be… it’s starting to rain… we'll be seeking those briefings over the course of this week and I know that when Chris Bowen was in the Shadow Health position there were regular briefings given by the government, so we're confident that that will be no problem. Yes, I know that at different points the Prime Minister and Minister Hunt have said that the end of March deadline might be pushed back into April, but we still don't know exactly, precisely, when we'll reach that benchmark. As I said, if we don't reach that benchmark of four million by around that time, as we start to head into flu vaccine season, getting the whole population vaccinated by the end of October, which is already substantially later for example than the US deadline of vaccinating the population by the end of August, is going to be very, very difficult to manage. So, we want to understand, to the extent we can given what's happening in the EU, when are the Pfizer vaccines intended to arrive? When will they be finished with batch testing by the TGA? When will the single-entry point online that the government is setting up for every single appointment to have a vaccination, when is that going to be up and running? When will people understand how they do that, for example? I mean, how do how does someone make an appointment for a GP, understanding that maybe their own GP doesn't do these vaccines? These are all details that we don't have and certainly the Australian community, including medical practices, don't have. We're already into February and as soon as the vaccine was approved in the EU, in the US, in the UK, and I think in Canada as well, they were rolling out within less than one week. So, we're one week down from the TGA giving their approval to the Pfizer vaccine and we're still none the clearer about when injections will start going into arms.

JOURNALIST: In your portfolio as well, the PM today talked about the response to the Royal Commission into Aged Care being part of its Budget this year. That report is obviously going to be released well before the Budget. Would you expect movement on some of these recommendations before that Budget happens in May?

BUTLER: Well, this is a system in crisis. This is a system which sees more than 100,000 people languishing on waiting lists for home care packages for which they've already received approval through the Aged Care assessment process. So, this isn't a problem that's going to suddenly emerge on the 26th of February when the Royal Commission hands down its final report. This is something that we've been saying in Labor, the community has been saying, the aged care sector has been saying, should have been subject to work well before today. So, this is already overdue work. We've already seen through the course of last year, absolutely shocking stories like maggots in wounds. Aged Care residents going without, without water, without food. This is a sector in abject crisis. It certainly can't wait till the Budget, it shouldn't wait until the 26th of February. The interim report was entitled neglect for a very clear reason, that is because this has been a sector in neglect under this government for far too long.

JOURNALIST: It's not your portfolio anymore but is it encouraging for you to hear the Prime Minister say that we're essentially aiming for net zero emissions by 2050?

BUTLER: Well, no, I’ll just echo what Jim Chalmers has said. In his first major outing since the election of Joe Biden, with all of the global atmospheric change that that involves, with China and North, South Korea, not North Korea, yet – China, and South Korea, and Japan commit to net emissions late last year, and still the Prime Minister can't make a commitment that every state government has made, every single business organisation, the National Farmers Federation., our largest airline, our largest bank, our largest mining company, and many besides, still the Prime Minister can't make a commitment, the business community and the broader community is crying out for him to make. This was a wonderful opportunity for him to start this year anew. A year that in spite of the pandemic is going to involve very, very different atmospherics at a global level around climate change, for the reasons I’ve outlined, and he completely squibbed it. As Jim Chalmers just said, he's completely squibbed the opportunity. Now, he might come up with a whole bunch of other different words, but short of a commitment, those words don't mean anything.

JOURNALIST: What action is Labor suggesting should be taken to recover JobKeeper funds that have gone to companies that have funnelled it through to executive bonuses and dividends?

CHALMERS: One of the reasons the government doesn't have enough to show for its trillion dollars in debt is because a lot of the money that they have committed is being wasted. As it stands, the Prime Minister would rather see JobKeeper money go to puff up executive bonuses, then go to struggling small businesses in Cairns after March. The first step should be more transparency, so that we know how big this issue is, how many very profitable companies have been getting JobKeeper, how much has been paid out in executive bonuses. We need to know that. There's no reason for the government not to provide that information. The fact that they haven't done so yet means that they have something to hide. If these were social security recipients, the government would be chasing them. That's the point that Anthony Albanese made this morning. What we would like to see is JobKeeper money going where it's needed most. The Prime Minister and the Treasurer are spraying money around in all directions - a trillion dollars in debt, rorts, and dodgy land deals, and all the rest of it - we want to see money going where it's needed most. The Prime Minister says there's no blank cheque and that's right, but there seems to be a blank cheque for a lot of money spraying around to people who don't need it.

JOURNALIST: Jim, just on the news media bargaining code, how do you see this playing out? The Prime Minister is confident Microsoft is going to step into the breach. What do you think of Google's threat as well, pretty nasty stuff?

CHALMERS: Obviously I'm not part of the Prime Minister's discussions with those companies. I saw what he said earlier-on today. Our position, expressed by Michelle Rowland, myself, Anthony, and others, has been consistent for some time. We support, in principle, a code which sees the tech platforms pay for journalism. We've made that view very clear. Our concern is the government has been making a hash of this. They said that they would fix it last year, it's still clearly not fixed. It's for the government to explain the delays which are creating so much uncertainty. We need to see it resolved as the government promised to do. Once again, a big announcement that they'd have a code finished by last year, fallen over in the delivery, that's what we're seeing.

JOURNALIST: Shadow Treasurer, are you comfortable with James Shipton returning as ASIC Chair?

CHALMERS: What troubles me about the whole situation at ASIC is the Treasurer still hasn't explained why he sat on the initial report, and then why he sat on the subsequent report, that there have been allegations about what had gone on at ASIC. What concerns me too, is that there is a vacuum now when it comes to that really important function of corporate regulation, because the Treasurer has now conceded that there are serious problems at ASIC, and has absolutely no idea how to address them. And so at a really important time, a really sensitive time for the business sector, when we want them to be getting on creating jobs and opportunities for more Australians, when we want the regulatory environment to be settled and robust, we have a Treasurer who has sat on important reports, sat on important information, and that has delayed the important task of getting ASIC back on track. I'll just take this one, because I said I would, then we're done.

JOURNALIST: What do you make of Christian Porter attending the High Court this morning when he probably should have been isolating?

BUTLER: Sorry I wasn't aware. So all I can say is that our advice to MPs and Senators has been to follow the public health advice of whatever jurisdiction they happen to find themselves in. And at the moment, if you're in the ACT, you should be following ACT public health advice. I don't know the particulars of the instance that you're rising, but that's certainly the approach that Labor MPs and Senators and their staff are taking.

JOURNALIST: One more on health, if I could. Chris Bowen has taken over climate and he’s taken a slightly different position to your, I guess, vision, on a couple of things. How will we see you take on this health portfolio, what are some things that you're going to attack and what are some priority areas for you?

BUTLER: Well the priority for the Australian community is the vaccine rollout. We know that is key to us being able to continue to open up as an economy and for people to feel confident and safe and start getting back to their jobs and their usual livelihoods, so that will be my principal focus as the Shadow Health Minister, as it was for Chris Bowen. As I said in my opening, I think Chris and Anthony together took a very constructive approach, taking regular briefings from the government and offering whatever possible support we could to the measures that Scott Morrison and Greg Hunt were taking. And that's what we did at a state level as well, whether they were Liberal Premiers or Labor Premiers, and that's why I think it's so important that Scott Morrison start to pull his people into line when they do, frankly, irresponsible things like Peter Dutton did in relation to WA this morning. So I don't think you'll see a substantial change in approach between Chris Bowen’s approach as Shadow Health Minister and mine. The second thing I'll say, though, that is a priority for Labor, is the release of the Royal Commission report on the 26th of February, in about four weeks time, because - you would have been talking to people in your own communities over the course of this summer - Australians, alongside the pandemic, are deeply concerned about the abject crisis in their aged care system. Whether we're talking residential facilities or home care. We intend, completely, to hold the government to account about this shocking failure. Thanks very much.

ENDS