with 
SENATOR KATY GALLAGHER
SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE
SHADOW MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE
SENATOR FOR THE AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
DOORSTOP INTERVIEW
PARLIAMENT HOUSE, CANBERRA
TUESDAY, 21 JULY 2020
 
SUBJECTS: JobKeeper; JobSeeker; Budget update; Labor’s policy development; RBA Governor’s speech.
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: This is the first recession in three decades and people are hurting. We don't want to see unemployment too high for too long. We don't want this to be a jobless recovery where too many Australians are left behind, or held back as we start to emerge from the worst of this health crisis. The test of what's being announced today is [what happens to] jobs and the businesses which create them. Already in the Treasury document released today we see that they are expecting unemployment to rise further to around 8 per cent in the September quarter and then to keep rising after that. The Reserve Bank Governor has made some similar points about unemployment being with us for longer than any of us want to see. The test of what the Government has announced today will be what it means for jobs. 
 
Labor is inclined to support what the Government has announced when it comes to JobKeeper. We will work through the detail of what's being proposed. When we see the legislation, if there are improvements that can be made, we will seek to make those improvements. We've been responsible and constructive throughout this recession, and we will continue to be so. We will continue to put people and their jobs before politics. We will continue to point out where the Government can do a better job with what they're proposing to do to deal with this first recession in three decades. 
 
Today is a welcome admission from the Prime Minister that he got it wrong to commit to a hard September snapback in the first place. If the Prime Minister's instincts were followed through on, that would have been catastrophic for people, for workers, for jobs, for businesses, and for communities right around Australia. It is a welcome change of heart from the Prime Minister that he doesn't intend to carry through on his original commitment of a hard September snapback, which would have destroyed even more businesses and destroyed even more jobs, and therefore destroyed even more lives. 
 
We want to see the Government do a much better job of rolling out this new phase of Government support than they did of rolling out the first phase. We shouldn't forget that every single Australian left out of the original JobKeeper program is still left behind in this new iteration of the program. We shouldn't forget that the Government has now 'fessed up to borrowing $6 billion to overpay some Australians, while other Australians were unnecessarily excluded from the scheme. JobKeeper has done some good in the economy. It's a good idea, but it's been badly implemented. Too many people have been left out and left behind and the Government has missed an opportunity today to fix some of those obvious errors with the original scheme. The test of what the Government's announced will be what happens to jobs in particular, and what happens to the businesses which create those jobs. 
 
It is very troubling to see the Treasury forecasts released today and hear what the Reserve Bank Governor has said at the same time about unemployment, even with these steps being taken, rising in the September quarter, rising in the December quarter, and then too high for too long. The Government has made an announcement today about the extension of two programs but they still haven't come up with a plan for jobs in the recovery. Australians shouldn't have to wait until the October Budget before we hear from the Government about what they intend to do in the longer-term for jobs and the recovery, so that people aren't left behind, and so that people can genuinely get ahead in this economy. That's why on Thursday we need to see a proper budget update, not another marketing exercise. We need to see four years of forecasts, and we need to see a plan for jobs and the recovery. We need to know from the Government what their expectations are for how bad this recession will get, how much debt will be piled up to add to the record debt which was already there before the crisis, and how high unemployment will be for how long. A proper comprehensive update is long overdue. That's what we need to see on Thursday.
 
Katy's got a bit to add about all of that, as well as in relation to the JobSeeker changes.
 
KATY GALLAGHER, SHADOW FINANCE MINISTER: Thanks, Jim, just a couple of things. Over the past five months, taxpayers have spent about $130 billion in keeping our community safe, in supporting families and maintaining jobs. This has been crucial support. Today the Government announced a further $20 billion in extending some of those crucial programmes with JobKeeper and JobSeeker. But what we also learned today is that about a quarter of those on JobKeeper earned more through receiving JobKeeper payments than they would normally have earned. And that's up to about $6 billion over the six months of this program. When we're looking at the amount of deficits and debt going forward that this community is going to have to deal with over the longer term it's critical that every single dollar spent taxpayer funds is targeted in a way that delivers particular outcomes. For example, to keep the unemployment queue as low as it can be, and to make sure that we're creating jobs for people to go back into who've lost them over the past couple of months. Now, we do have concerns that that $6 billion could have been targeted in a better way. Perhaps it could have looked to support those shorter term casuals raising families that were excluded, ‘dnata’ workers, university staff. We've got early childhood educators who were kicked off just two days ago. Hospitality; arts; entertainment workers, all who have been shifted either into no income support or onto the JobSeeker line. We also know that JobSeeker has doubled. The numbers on the unemployment queue, the Newstart payment - JobSeeker has doubled over the past few months. We've gone from just over 800,000 Australians to 1.6 million Australians. Now, Labor has been saying for over a year, well before the COVID-19 pandemic that $40 a day wasn't enough to live on. That there could be, you know that that number, that figure needed to be increased and that it was the Government's job to do the work to deliver that payment increase. In terms of the announcements today around the refining of the JobKeeper payment, we are broadly supportive of those we need to have again and have a look at the detail and work through that over the next few days. But the Government failed to take the opportunity to rule out going back to $40 a day. This should be an easy task for the Government in these difficult times when families are struggling to pay bills, to put food on the table and to find work if they're unemployed. This is what the Government needs to do. They need to come up with a plan around jobs in the recovery, but they also need to come up with a long term solution to what they're going to do for people who rely on Newstart to you know, to pay to make ends meet and they failed to do that today. So we would say to the Government do the work. Rule out the $40 per day ‘snap back’. Get Treasury to do the work sooner rather than later that comes up with a permanent solution to the Newstart payment. Don't kick the can down the road and hope for the best. People who rely on Newstart deserve the certainty that a permanent increase would afford them and so we would urge the Government to deal with that, certainly, if not in the Budget by the end of the year.
 
JOURNALIST: Mr Chalmers, do you think there's a disincentive issue around the step-down, and the way that that interacts with the JobSeeker payment?
 
CHALMERS: It remains to be seen. I saw that the Prime Minister was asked about this in his press conference earlier on today. We just want to make sure that the payments are carefully calibrated. We want to make sure that they are sufficient to prevent unemployment being too high for too long. The Government has been sitting on the Treasury review now for almost a month. If those issues are there when it comes to work incentives then it's for the Government to give us comfort that they have not replaced one set of problems with another.
 
JOURNALIST: Just confirming if you're comfortable with that Coronavirus Supplement going from $550 to $250?
 
CHALMERS: We've said that we want to make sure that there's an increase to the JobSeeker payment, a permanent increase above the $40 per day, where the current permanent rate is. That's our highest priority. We think the Government missed an opportunity today to give millions of Australians some clarity about what the future of the JobSeeker payment looks like. As Katy said, in many ways they have kicked the can down the road, and people deserve more than that, they deserve more certainty than that, and they deserve more than $40 per day. 
 
JOURNALIST: And what is that figure then, if it's more than $40 per day?
 
CHALMERS: As you know, we haven't put a dollar figure on it. Our highest priority is to secure a permanent increase to the old Newstart rate, which at $40 per day was not enough for people to support themselves or to look for jobs. It wasn't good for the individual, and it certainly wasn't good for the economy. There is an issue with a lack of demand in the economy and that isn't a brand new problem that's been brought to us by the Coronavirus. There's been issues with consumption in the economy for some time. We should be able to hope for better than a snap back to how the economy was at the end of last year when we had the stagnant wages, weak consumption, weak business investment, weak productivity, debt had already more than doubled, the list goes on and on and on. There are substantial issues in our economy which have been accelerated by the Coronavirus but weren't created from scratch by it.
 
JOURNALIST: What would you be happy with? I know you haven't named a figure and a lot of people are frustrated by that because you're making this argument but not saying where a good mark would be.
 
CHALMERS: I think the frustration is overwhelmingly with the Government for not providing the certainty that people need and deserve about the future of JobSeeker. We haven't put a number on the increase. We haven't had access to the same expert advice or the same Treasury modelling that the Government has. We still haven't got an update to the Budget that was originally was due in May and became June; now it's become July and we're still haven't seen what the state of the Budget is. Our view has been that when the JobSeeker right normalises it can't normalise at $40 per day. 
 
JOURNALIST: The speech by Dr Lowe today, he said the only way to get public finance under control is with accelerated economic growth. You've had a year since the election, you've got to start working on policy directly in that space. How far away are you from seeing some development on Labor's policy agenda?
 
CHALMERS: We're always working on Labor's policy agenda for the next election, but we've indicated that with a lot of the volatility in the economy, a lot of secrecy, frankly, about the position of the Budget and the Government's own plans, that we will take our time to do that. We've laid down important markers. Anthony Albanese has given a number of really important Vision Statements about our priorities. Our number one priority is jobs. That will be the test that's applied to what's been announced today. I expect that will be the main issue at the election, what happens to jobs. The Governor is absolutely right to say that the priority needs to be economic growth. That is how we pay down this stupendous amount of debt which has been piled up, not just during this crisis but before it as well. It's also how we create well paid, secure jobs for more of our people. The economy was not in good nick even before most of us had heard of the Coronavirus. There was a big task to be done to repair the economy, and to get it growing in a sustainable and inclusive way so that more people can benefit from it. That remains the task. It's the task that Katy and I, the economic team, the Shadow Cabinet, and the broader Labor Party have been working on more or less continuously. We'll make announcements in due course.
 
JOURNALIST: But this has to change your policy thinking, given the Reserve Bank have said it is going to be effectively zero for the next two or three years? The forecast for the 2021-22 deficit is somewhere between $50 billion - $150 billion. It leaves a lot of the heavy lifting for growth on policies settings, and perhaps expenditure, even lifting the deficit to get the policies right?
 
CHALMERS: I'm not prepared to commit to that now, but your general point about growth being the priority is absolutely right. That's why it is disappointing that we've had to wait for so long for an update from the Government about what they expect the consequences of this recession to be. Obviously we rely heavily on budget updates to know what's possible and what's desirable with our own policies. Like the rest of Australia we've been kept in the dark for a long time now. We are obviously working on policies to grow the economy, in a more inclusive, more sustainable, and stronger way. We've made important contributions on energy policy for example which might be the highest priority when it comes to growing the economy again, because the lack of an energy policy has been a handbrake on growth, because it's going to handbrake on investment more broadly. We've made a number of important contributions and we'll release detailed policies closer to the election. 
 
Thanks very much.
 
ENDS