Doorstop interview, Canberra

JIM CHALMERS:

I wanted to set the scene for what is going to be a really busy finish, particularly in economic policy, a really busy finish to the year. We've got the mid-year budget update next week. We understand and recognise that people are under substantial cost of living pressure but we are making welcome and encouraging progress in this fight against inflation. We saw that in the most recent data. Our cost-of-living plan is targeted to take some of the edge off these cost-of-living pressures without adding to inflation. The ABS and others have said that we are making progress on that front. The defining feature of the mid-year budget update will be responsible economic management. We know from Fitch Ratings, the IMF, the OECD, the Reserve Bank Governor and others that our responsible economic management is helping to put downward pressure on inflation. We are making welcome and encouraging progress on that front but we understand and recognise that we've still got a long way to go. So that's next week.

This week, we've got the National Accounts and we've got National Cabinet. Tomorrow, we've got the Investor Roundtable which will assemble trillions of dollars of capital in order to work out the best ways to get the best outcomes for our communities and our country by working together with investors. And that's really the spirit of today's Investment Dialogue for Australia's Children as well. We believe we make much more progress when we work together. The Albanese Government is bringing together investors and philanthropists to get the energy transformation right, to broaden and deepen our industrial base, and to tackle entrenched disadvantage in communities like the one that I represent. Today's meeting is all about recognising that even in a country like ours and an economy like ours for too long there has been entrenched disadvantage in communities like Logan City and in other communities around Australia. We give ourselves the best chance to address that when we work together with philanthropists, with investors and others. And what we will show today and what we will show tomorrow is by bringing investors and philanthropists together, we can get this energy transformation right, we can broaden and deepen our industrial base, and we can address entrenched disadvantage in our community.

Now, before I hand over to Amanda Rishworth, I just want to say a couple of things about super. Today, we have released a discussion paper, which is all about recognising we need to put as much focus on the retirement phase of super as we've seen with the welcome focus on the accumulation phase. We need better information, better access and better products for people in the retirement phase. There is a lot of anxiety that as people live longer and healthier lives, they want to know that they've got enough super to provide for a decent retirement. We want to help them on that front and that's what today's discussion paper is all about.

I also wanted to really welcome new data which has been released today about payday superannuation. This is about more super for more workers, and it gives employers the time to get it right. Payday super is a simple change that will mean more super for more workers in our community and we've deliberately structured it so that employers have got the time to do the right thing. We're very pleased and very proud of that. We're very grateful for the very strong endorsement that we've received on that front today. I'll hand over to Amanda and then Kristy and then will take some questions.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:

Thank you, Jim. Today's roundtable for the Investment Dialogue for Australia's Children is a really important step in how we talk and work together with philanthropy, with government, and of course the wider community. For a long time we've seen governments with good intentions, philanthropic organisations with good intentions, and communities very clear about what they need. But what this dialogue is doing is bringing together those three elements to work together to all pull in the same direction, to complement each other, to coordinate with each other for the long term. And today, we will be working with a number of philanthropic organisations that have flown across the country to come here and join us, and we will be taking the next concrete step in this important dialogue through the signing of our Working Together Agreement. This will outline four areas of important focus. It will outline the length and the breadth of time that we are committed to working together. This is a 10-year framework that we have committed to working together – a focus on data and data collection so important to ensuring that we know that we're making a difference. How do we get the right data at the right place to inform our decision making – of course collaboration is key to this; how do we collaborate together, to work together to pull in the same direction; and importantly how do we operate in place. Operating in place is incredibly important and it's about bringing everyone to the table: communities, philanthropic organisations, and government together working about how we will make a difference, particularly in places around the country where we've seen unacceptable levels of entrenched disadvantage. This is a new way of working together. It is a very exciting way and it's a way that we can work in a much more coordinated way. And I'd like to thank ARACY, who has done a lot of work in the preparation for this to Kristy and Matthew [Cox], thank you so much for all your input. Because this is really how we are going to get more work done together and it's only going to be a good thing for the community.

KRISTY MUIR, PAUL RAMSAY FOUNDATION:

Thanks Minister, thanks Treasurer. On behalf of philanthropy who have flown across the country for the signing of the Working Together Agreement for investing in Australia's children, we're really excited about this long-term commitment of working with government and with community for better outcomes for our kids, families and communities. We want to create a situation where we can turn current future projections into places where we're thinking about post codes in terms of pride and possibilities for all kids, families and communities.

JOURNALIST:

Dr Chalmers, I think most people would generally see these issues you're talking about – tackling entrenched disadvantage, lifting children out of poverty – squarely in the realm of government, which is in your job. What do you hope you're going to get then out of relying on philanthropy and the private sector?

CHALMERS:

We wouldn't be relying solely on philanthropy or the private sector. This is about recognising when you've got big entrenched challenges like entrenched disadvantage in concentrated communities then we need all shoulders to the wheel. And I really wanted to pay tribute to Kristy and Matthew and all other colleagues for being so willing to work with government and with the private sector, to see what we can do together. If there's one philosophy that unites everything that we're trying to do in the Albanese Government, whether it's National Cabinet, whether it's what we're talking about today, and more broadly in the international community too, we believe you make more progress if you work together. That's what today is all about. For a lot of us, this is our reason for being: the idea that even in a first world country like Australia, with all of its long-term economic success, the idea that we still have communities of entrenched disadvantage. A lot of us are here to try and turn this around and we can't do it on our own. They can't do it on their own. We can't do it on our own. We know that if we work together, we give ourselves the best chance.

JOURNALIST:

This time last year, your government announced the energy rebates that will kick in for the next financial year. Are you willing to consider a second round to give Australians' assurance they won't just cut out at the end of next year?

CHALMERS:

The Australian Bureau of Statistics has made it really clear that one of the reasons why we've got downward pressure on inflation is our electricity rebates. And in the most recent data, what would have been an increase of more than 18 per cent was more like a 4 per cent increase – still difficult for people but much easier were it not for the Government stepping in and working with state and territory counterparts to make that possible. We are still rolling out substantial parts of that $23 billion, 10-part cost-of-living relief plan. People shouldn't anticipate big new measures in the mid-year update next week, but obviously as we get closer to the Budget in May if there's more that we can do, which is consistent with our budget constraints and is right for the economic conditions at the time, then obviously as we have always said, we're prepared to contemplate it.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, on the National Cabinet on Wednesday and the states' demand for the GST top-up to be made permanent, do you find it ironic they are prepared to spend more on the NDIS if you give it to them? And are you prepared at all to move on the GST? Or is it, as you've said, your budget is as lean as theirs and they’ve got to find the money themselves?

CHALMERS:

I consider the no worse-off guarantee to be a live conversation, and I got the ball rolling last Friday, as you know, in good faith. Our instinct, our inclination is to work with the states and territories where we can. We think that there's a deal to be done here but not a deal at any cost. And any deal needs to recognise – not just the pressures on state and federal budgets – but pressures on the Commonwealth budget as well, and I've made that clear. And as we discussed last Friday in Brisbane, no doubt part of the ongoing discussions, as we recognise state and territory budgets are under pressure but so is ours, and we're prepared to work through these issues in good faith with people. I've got the ball rolling on that, no doubt they've got a different view. It would be good if we could come to some kind of understanding but if we can't, we can't.

JOURNALIST:

On superannuation, Treasurer, this $4.7 billion sitting around in superannuation payments that hasn't been paid out, why has the Government given until 2025 to fix it?

CHALMERS:

Well, we want to make sure that employers have got the opportunity to get this right. We have deliberately given them a longish run-up to make sure that they can get all the systems in place so that we can address this problem which has been hanging around for too long. For too long, people haven't been getting the super that they are entitled to. We want to fix that and payday super is part of the solution to that challenge. It will mean more super for more workers. We recognise that people need the time to get the systems in place and we've allowed that. At the end of the day, this will be a stronger superannuation system, where people get the super that they've earned and that they're entitled to.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, the ANZ job ads out today, you've had that fall of 8.4 per cent in three months – last month was the biggest fall since June 2018 – do you think the jobs market is at risk of slowing more quickly than had been anticipated?

CHALMERS:

Well, a bit of perspective on the jobs market. Since these monthly records were first kept in 1978 – a very good year wasn't it, Amanda? Since these monthly records were first kept, there's only been 20 months where unemployment has had a three in front of it, and 17 of those months have been the first 17 months of the Albanese Labor Government. And so our labour market has been remarkably resilient – 620,000 new jobs created on our watch, which is a record for a first-term government and we're only halfway through. Record high participation, the gender pay gap is the closest that it's ever been. There are real reasons to conclude that our labour market has been very resilient but it is softening around the edges. We saw that in the job ads today, and in recent times as you rightly point to. Also hours worked came off relatively substantially in some of that recent data. So we have expected for some time, the Treasury forecasts, the Reserve Bank forecasts and others, have expected for some time that the unemployment rate will tick up. You usually see the leading edge of that in job ads and hours worked and other indicators, and that's what we're seeing right now. It's not a surprise to us but we do enter this new period of global economic uncertainty and the impact of all these rate rises from a position of genuine strength. And one of the places that's most obvious has been in the incredible performance of the labour market in recent months.

JOURNALIST:

Treasurer, how much of a fight are you expecting on the latest multinational tax crackdown in the Senate? The Opposition says that Labor's bungled the consultation. And what are your expectations for National Accounts on Wednesday?

CHALMERS:

On multinational taxes, it remains to be seen what position the Opposition land on when it comes to the really important legislation in the parliament. We want to make sure that multinational corporations pay their fair share of tax because every dollar that multinational corporations avoid has to be picked up by ordinary working folks and we don't want to see that. So it would be disappointing but not especially surprising if the Opposition stood up for multinational corporations at the expense of ordinary working people – they made a habit of that for the best part of a decade when they were in office. That's why we had wage stagnation, that's why we had falling living standards, real wages going backwards – 3.4 per cent when we came to office, so we encourage them to see sense. The whole world is trying to work out how we crack down on multinational tax evasion and avoidance. That's what this legislation is about. They've said in the past that they're in favour of doing something here, let's see that reflected in their vote.

When it comes to the National Accounts, obviously it remains to be seen the number that we will get on Wednesday morning and obviously, I'll come and talk to you about it then. We recognise that Australians are under substantial pressure and we expect our economy to continue to show the impact of the rate rises which began before the election, and inflation which is moderating but is still too high. We expect to see that reflected in the National Accounts but we need some perspective here when it comes to the performance of our economy. People are under pressure, our economy is slowing but inflation is moderating, wages are growing, we've had two consecutive quarters of real wage growth. We've got unemployment with a three in front of it, we've got record high participation, record low gender pay gap, we've already delivered a surplus, and the MYEFO will show a much healthier set of books than what we saw in the May Budget. And so we are making welcome and encouraging progress across all of these fronts, particularly when it comes to the fight against inflation, but we're not getting carried away because we know there's a long way to go.

JOURNALIST:

The French President and your former colleague, Joel Fitzgibbon, say it's time for Australia to lift the moratorium on nuclear? Do you agree with them? And is it inevitable the Labor Party is going to have to have a conversation about including nuclear in the energy mix?

CHALMERS:

I don't agree. I don't agree because the economics don't stack up and even if they did, it would take much too long to get nuclear power online. If you think about that really important discussion that's happening at COP at the moment, the signature call out at COP is for a tripling of renewable energy and a doubling of energy efficiency by 2030 and we support those things. Nuclear energy doesn't make sense for Australia, it doesn't make economic sense and even if it did, it would take too long. We have remarkable advantages here – geological, geographical meteorological – and we need to maximise those advantages. That means getting more renewable energy into the system so that we can get cleaner and cheaper energy, and broaden and deepen our industrial base.

JOURNALIST:

Today, the Commonwealth Ombudsman has suggested that Services Australia should wipe all 100,000 debts that were possibly affected by unlawful income apportionment. Do you agree that would be the quickest and easiest way to solve this issue?

RISHWORTH:

Firstly, I would say that income apportionment is a very complex issue that has happened over approximately 20 to 30 years under previous governments. Firstly, I would say that when it first came to my attention, I made sure that we were no longer [inaudible] income apportionment to the debts being raised. And I was assured that that had stopped in 2020. In addition to that, debts have now been paused that was subject to the calculation from income apportionment. I've also asked very clearly, for my department to settle the outstanding legal advice that currently exists with the calculation or the application of the law. I'm waiting for that legal advice. But I can assure you as everyone else, I want to see this issue resolved as quickly as possible. It is an historic issue. It's one where there is still some legal questions but I am seeking the resolution of this as quickly as possible.