Interview with Michael Rowland, News Breakfast, ABC

MICHAEL ROWLAND:

Mr Chalmers, good morning.

JIM CHALMERS:

Good morning, Michael.

ROWLAND:

Let's start with the Budget surplus. The latest figures have the last financial year surplus coming in at $22.1 billion. That is quite the turnaround.

CHALMERS:

It's a massive turnaround, Michael, and it's the consequence of the responsible economic management that we have brought to the task. We've got the Budget in much better nick, at the same time as we're rolling out billions of dollars in cost‑of‑living relief for Australians who are doing it tough.

ROWLAND:

But how much of this is going to continue? Are you expecting another surplus this financial year? You forecast a deficit back in the Budget.

CHALMERS:

It's not our expectation at the moment, Michael, that there will be a second one, but this first surplus in 15 years is really important, because it hasn't come at the expense of helping people. We know that it's not an end in itself, but it's a really important, much stronger foundation from which to face the uncertainties ahead, and the pressures on the Budget are intensifying rather than easing.

But what we've been able to do by getting the budget in much better nick is we've been able to put the budget in a stronger position, we've been able to save billions of dollars in interest on the Liberal Party debt that we inherited, and as a consequence of that, we've rebuilt some of the buffers in the Budget for the uncertain times that we think we will confront in the next 12 to 24 months.

ROWLAND:

It's a much bigger pot of money you've got now, care of that bigger surplus last financial year. You've talked about cost‑of‑living relief already, but surely, Treasurer, there's now scope for more. A lot of suffering with high power prices, the lagging effects of high interest rates. Is there a case for more cost‑of‑living relief?

CHALMERS:

First of all, the Government's highest priority, and has been for some time, is rolling out billions of dollars in cost‑of‑living relief in a way that takes some of the edge off these inflationary pressures rather than add to them, and so we've got carefully calibrated and targeted cost‑of‑living relief, whether it's out‑of‑pocket health costs, taking some of the sting out of higher energy bills, the biggest increase in Commonwealth Rent Assistance in 30 years. All of these things are really important.

Now what it demonstrates is that we've been able to get the budget in much better nick at the same time as we roll out that cost‑of‑living help. The Budget surplus hasn't come at the expense of helping people, but it has built a much stronger foundation in the Budget. There hasn't been a Budget surplus for 15 years now. By getting the budget back in the black, we're in a much stronger position. The Budget is in much better nick, and it helps us to invest in a more resilient economy, and it helps us roll out this cost‑of‑living help that people do desperately need.

ROWLAND:

Okay. Let's move on to the COVID inquiry announced by the Prime Minister yesterday. That will exclude looking at decisions made by state and territory governments. That's a bit odd, isn't it?

CHALMERS:

I don't think so, Michael. The focus in this COVID inquiry is what the Commonwealth can do better, and it will be a comprehensive and broad learning of all of the lessons from COVID, because we anticipate that this won't be the last time that something like this happens. We need to recognise –

ROWLAND:

But we can learn from the lessons of the past, can't we, Treasurer?

CHALMERS:

We need to recognise that there have been something like 20 different inquiries and reviews. In my own portfolio we're still conducting a review into the waste in the JobKeeper program, for example. So there are lots of ongoing reviews and inquiries which will feed into this broader piece of work. But our focus, and we've been upfront about this, is what we can do better as a Commonwealth Government. That's really important, because at some point in the future, and hopefully a long time away, but not necessarily, we may have to deal with a similar set of circumstances, and we need to learn the lessons of the past and to do better in the future.

ROWLAND:

I'm all for looking forward to the future as well. But surely better decisions will be made on the basis of looking, through this inquiry, at whether certain lockdowns, curfews, you name it, were the right way to go.

CHALMERS:

We will focus on some of those big decisions that were taken by our predecessors, and many of them with our support; we acknowledge that too. We want to make sure we get that right. It's not a sort of a partisan thing that we're trying to do here. We're trying to work out as a Commonwealth Government and as a country what we can learn from the past to do better in the future, and the states are welcome to participate in that. We anticipate that states might make submissions or participate in other ways in the process that we've set up. But I think it's really important that we do it, and this is the right way to do it. We will learn the lessons of the past, we will do things better in the future as a country.

ROWLAND:

Okay. A couple of other issues before you go. Your old sparring partner, Josh Frydenberg, announced yesterday he won't be at this stage seeking to re-enter parliament through his seat of Kooyong, citing his big new job with Goldman Sachs, and he wants to spend more time with his family. Do you understand his decision?

CHALMERS:

I do. Josh has got a wonderful family, and I wish him well, I genuinely wish him all the best. I actually had a relatively lengthy conversation with him yesterday morning about this new opportunity that he is taking up, but also some of the broader issues about balancing this role that he used to be in, that I'm in now, and how do we make sure we're doing what we can to be good dads at the same time as trying to be good treasurers. And so I had a good yack with him about it yesterday. We talk from time to time, not every day, but from time to time, and I genuinely wish him well. And I wish his family well too.

ROWLAND:

And finally, to our top story this morning, the overnight decision by Rupert Murdoch to step down as the head of his global media empire. As you know, the Labor Party, Jim Chalmers, has had a fraught relationship with News Corp over so many years. What in your view is Rupert Murdoch's legacy?

CHALMERS:

Obviously Rupert Murdoch has been an incredibly influential figure on the global media landscape, and I think lots of people will see this rightly today as an end of an era.

ROWLAND:

Has he treated the Labor Party unfairly at times?

CHALMERS:

What I try and do, I try not to go into whether or not I feel stories or coverage have been fair. I think the body of work is there for all to see. He has been in lots of ways a controversial figure, but an influential figure too, and this is an end of an era at News.

ROWLAND:

Jim Chalmers, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.