Joint doorstop interview, Lismore, NSW
JANELLE SAFFIN:
Thank you everyone for being here. And I want to thank Mountain Blue, Andrew Bell and Ridley Bell, for hosting the visit here today. And I'm really happy to have here our Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, is also Acting PM at the moment, and with him Minister Murray Watt, the Minister for Emergency Management, Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry. And it's great because it's Jim's first visit here as Treasurer, not his first visit but first visit as Treasurer. And also for Murray, Murray I think, has become quite local. Almost from day one, he's been here. And also my colleague and friend, Justine Elliot, the Member for Richmond. And what I like about having the Treasurer here is he can have a look and see just what we're doing here, how we're rebuilding, how grants are being used, look at value for money, and we can give him feedback on a whole range of issues in our community. We did visit Norco as well, we had a look at how they're rebuilding, and rebuilding in a resilient way which is what we're trying to ensure that we do here. So with those words, I'll hand over to our Treasurer.
JIM CHALMERS:
Thanks Janelle. It's nice to be here with Justine, Janelle, Murray of course, and a big thank you to everyone here at Mountain Blue, and also earlier today, over at Norco as well. I want to pay tribute to the local members here and also to Murray, for the tireless work with big employers in this part of the world, and with community leaders and community more broadly, as everyone does their best to rebuild after what was a very, very difficult time, with the flooding here in Lismore and in some of the surrounding areas.
One of the things that makes me really optimistic about our economy and our country and our future, is the way that communities like this one work together and band together at the most difficult times. Australians are there for each other when times are tough, and the Albanese Government will be there for people as well. One of the reasons why Murray and I wanted to come here today is because we want to make it really clear that Government will be there for people when the floodwaters are rising, but also after they subside. We want to make sure that we follow through for communities like this one, that we make sure that we are there as willing partners, as communities and businesses rebuild, after the very difficult times that people saw during floods. It's a pretty remarkable stat that something like seven in every 10 Australians lived in a natural disaster declared area in 2022. And we are primarily focused on human cost of these natural disasters and the cost to communities, but there's also an economic cost and a cost to the budget as well. And again, I want to make it really clear to the people of Lismore, the people in flood‑affected and natural disaster affected areas right around Australia - we think of our brothers and sisters in WA and South Australia right now, as well - we will be there for people, not just during the worst of the natural disaster itself, but also in the rebuild.
Something like $5 billion in lost economic activity just last year alone, before we get to the damage to assets and the broader community costs. Something like three and a half billion dollars just in natural disaster payments alone. So there is a human cost, there is a cost to communities and businesses, there is a cost to the economy and there's a cost to the budget as well. But we will work enthusiastically and tirelessly and closely with these community leaders like the Mayor here, business leaders and employers, to make sure that we rebuild these communities as best we can, working collaboratively with local governments and state governments, and as the national government, to make sure that communities can get back on their feet. So, I’m really pleased we could come here so early in the new year. One of the reasons I said we're optimistic about the future is because communities like this can, do and will bounce back. But they need a federal government prepared to be a willing partner and that's what we are. It's going to be a difficult year in the global economy. It's going to be a difficult year when you think about all the pressures coming at us from around the world and felt around the kitchen table. And it gives me great heart to see the way that Mountain Blue and Norco and others, are really looking after their workforce and really getting back on their feet so that this part of Australia, this beautiful part of Australia, can be a really important part of our nation and our national economy into the future. Let's hear from Murray Watt and then happy to take some questions.
MURRAY WATT:
Thanks very much, Jim. It's a real pleasure to have you here in Lismore. And I was really pleased that very soon after the new year started, you were in touch saying you're very keen to start off the year in Lismore, to see for yourself as the Treasurer of our country, how the situation is here in the Northern Rivers and what more remains to be done. Can I also congratulate Janelle and Justine who - you could not have asked for any better local representatives - and they have been absolutely fearless in taking up the fight for residents of these communities. We've had some strong words at different times, you always know where you stand with Janelle, and Justine is just the same. And that's what you want in your local representatives, to make sure that people like Jim and me, are hearing straight talking about what more is needed in these communities. Earlier today, on our arrival, we also met up with Mayor Steve Krieg, and the federal member, Kevin Hogan. And we've always made a point - when I've come to town, and others have come to town - of meeting with everyone, no matter what political party they're from, no matter what level of government they're from, because the only way that this region will recover fully is by a truly bipartisan effort across all levels of government. So I thank Steve, and Kevin as well, they've got other commitments today, but I thank them for their continuing advice too. And of course, thank you to our friends at Mountain Blue, and before them, Norco.
As the Agriculture Minister, it's terrific to see some of our finest producers in the country getting back on their feet. As Jim said, today really is about us checking back in with this community at the very beginning of the year, to get a first‑hand look at how the recovery process is going. As many of you know, I've been a pretty regular visitor here from pretty much immediately after the floods when they first hit last year. I think I'm up to about my fifth or sixth visit since the floods. But what is really pleasing to see today, is that there is a long way to go in this recovery - and we've always said it's going to take a long time - but I can feel even from the short time by being here today, that this town is getting some of its bounce back. We're seeing more shops opening, we're seeing progress being made with Norco rebuilding, we've of course put money into that process along with Norco. And in many other ways we are seeing some real progress. But that's not to say that the job is done. We know that there are people who are still waiting to get into housing, we know that there are businesses who are still looking for more support to get back on their feet. And the only way that we as representatives of the Australian Government can fully understand what more is needed, is by coming here. Now this is obviously a shared responsibility, state governments, local governments, federal governments all pitching in. And certainly what I learned today from the visits that we've had already, and from the housing roundtable that we will be doing with a number of community sector representatives afterwards, is to take back the views of this community, to the state government, to the local government, to my federal government colleagues, so that we keep on pushing for the support that this region needs. I was having a look this morning, and already we've seen between state and federal governments, well over $1 billion in support that's been committed to the Northern Rivers region. Whether we're talking about payments that have been made to individual homeowners, support for small businesses for farmers, and of course the buyback program that the Prime Minister and the Premier of New South Wales announced recently. So there has been a significant investment, but if more is required then we're willing to have those discussions with different levels of government to make sure that not just Lismore, but the whole Northern Rivers region gets back to where it was before those terrible floods that we saw only 12 months ago.
Now, I should also just take the opportunity to update people on the floods that we're seeing currently in Western Australia. You may have seen that I was there with the Prime Minister earlier this week. And again, I guess that demonstrates that wherever and whenever Australians face natural disasters, the Albanese Government will be with them, quite literally, we will be there in person, we will be there with support, and we're there whether the disaster has just happened, as it has in Western Australia, or whether we're into the recovery phase like we are here in the Northern Rivers. Now, you may have seen the other day when we were in the Kimberley. We announced jointly with the Western Australian Government the first round of financial support, and that was emergency payments, financial hardship, accommodation payments and things like that. I'm very pleased today to be able to announce that we have now also activated the Australian Government Disaster Recovery Payment for the Derby West Kimberley council area. And that takes in the town of Fitzroy Crossing, which has pretty much been the epicentre of those floods in the Kimberley. And those payments provide $1,000 for every eligible adult and $400 for every eligible child. And as I say, that's in addition to the funding that has already been announced across a number of different council areas in the Kimberley.
So my closing message is, again, wherever and whenever people experience these natural disasters, the Albanese Government will stand with people. We're there when the disasters happen, we're there well afterwards to make sure the recovery goes well, and we're never going to let people feel abandoned by their governments. We're all happy to take questions about anything.
JOURNALIST:
We're here at the Mountain Blue packing shed and it suffered a couple of million dollars‑worth of damages during the floods, yet the business is yet to see any money from the Supply Chain Support Program. What's taking that so long, I believe that applications haven't even closed yet?
WATT:
That program was announced jointly between us and the New South Wales Government not too long before Christmas. And the purpose of that program is to get money into businesses that have been having trouble with their supply chains. Obviously, there's been a range of problems with supply chains in businesses in Australia over the last couple of years - COVID, Ukraine and in these sorts of areas floods as well - those applications, my understanding is that they close in the next few days. And what we've always said is that financial support after these disasters comes in stages. So typically, what we do initially is try to get money into individual homeowners' hands. And that's what we've done again today for Western Australia. And then we tend to move on to small business grants and primary producer grants, and I know that there have been many people in this region who've been able to take advantage of those. And as time goes on, we can look into the more in‑depth issues like supply chains, like the home buybacks, and it's quite likely that there will be additional support announced for this region as time goes on, and as the needs become clearer.
JOURNALIST:
The CSIRO report, the initial report was mid‑December, what are we going to see that, it's now mid‑January?
WATT:
I'd be hoping that report will become public very soon. We have received the CSIRO report, which was funded by the federal government, to examine the sort of short‑term and longer‑term resilience needs of this region. Just before Christmas, we provided a confidential copy of that report to the New South Wales Government, because we also want to share that information with them and get their sense of what's doable, what the likely cost of some of those resilience measures will be, and I'd be hoping to make that public very soon. And just so you know, that report will inform another round of financial assistance for this region in the form of resilience measures. The federal government has already devoted $75 million of the former government's Emergency Response Fund for this region, with resilience measures. This CSIRO report will inform $150 million worth of mitigation and resilience measures. And of course, we've just this week opened applications for our new Disaster Ready Fund, which will provide up to $200 million each and every year, to fund mitigation measures right around the country.
JOURNALIST:
Given the Kimberley is so different to say what's happened here in Lismore, how is the federal government addressing the diversity of regions that are being flood‑affected? They're so different, how do you coordinate your response?
WATT:
It's a real challenge, and even in the fairly short time that I've been the Emergency Management Minister, I've been to floods in New South Wales, Tasmania, Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, and in New South Wales on multiple occasions. Even within a particular state, there's regional differences about what people need. And that's where we rely very heavily on state and local governments to give us good advice off the ground about what is needed in a particular area. So in the Kimberley, that's a very different region to here. It's very high proportions of indigenous populations, very high levels of social housing, and they're going to need a different response to what you see in the Northern Rivers or southeast Queensland or western New South Wales. So that's why we've always made a really big effort to work very closely with state members, federal members, local government representatives, so that we're getting the best information possible no matter what the region.
JOURNALIST:
How do you feel about the rate of recovery here in the region? You've been on the ground multiple times, you've seen it from month to month - we're approaching a year now, is this where you'd hoped the region would be?
WATT:
Look, I think you'd always hope that you'd make even more progress than what's been made. But I want to pay tribute to the people of these communities for the incredible resilience and determination that they've shown in getting this region back up on its feet. I remember those days right after those floods when we were down here inspecting, and it was devastating, it was a warzone. And if you walk down Molesworth Street now, it may not be back to where it was, but it's certainly a long way from where it was straight after those floods and that's a terrific thing. And I know it's the same for Justine's communities, whether we're talking about Murwillumbah or Chinderah or any of the other areas in her area, that were flooded as well. So it's a real testament I think to community strength, and to the human spirit that people bounce back, and really come together to take the region forward.
JOURNALIST:
There are a lot of people doing it really tough with a lot of things still to come. What's your message for them? Is there still scope for some more spending to come their way?
WATT:
My message to everyone recovering from this flood is - don't lose hope. I've become personal friends with people who were flood victims in this region. And I know from the conversations I've had with them that at times, they really despair about their situation, but sometimes it's not possible in that situation to see the small progress that you can be making as an individual, or as a household. But I see that every single time I come here, that things have moved ahead. Norco is a good example, a big employer in this region, they've now done their demolition work, they're on the way to beginning the reconstruction. And we can see so many examples of that, whether it be businesses or homeowners, and that's a really positive thing.
JOURNALIST:
On insurance for people in the area, some obviously have businesses in the CBD and houses that will be raised, they can't get insurance [inaudible] is there an update on what the Government’s talking about?
WATT:
The honest truth is that insurance is a really big challenge for our nation, and this is a direct result of the disasters that we keep seeing happen here as a result of climate change. Unfortunately, for about 10 years, we had a government in Canberra that didn't take climate change seriously. And we saw more and more of these sorts of disasters impacting on humans and their properties over and over again. Now, we have a number of things underway to deal with this problem, again, it's not going to be solved overnight. But Jim, very kindly in last year's Budget, funded what we're calling a Hazards Insurance Partnership, which is a partnership between governments and insurance to better understand exactly what the risk level is, so that we can be putting the mitigation measures in the right places to help deal with some of those rising premiums. The very best thing that we can do to help people with their insurance costs is reduce the risk of disaster. And that's why we're making all these big investments in disaster mitigation. Now, I remember, people around Australia learnt about that $5 billion fund that Scott Morrison had after the Lismore floods. We'd been talking about it for a while, but people were just astonished that the federal government of the day had a $5 billion fund set aside to invest in disaster mitigation, hadn't built a single project in three years, and had earned the then government over $800 million in interest. We announced during the election campaign that we would overhaul that and put that money to work, to protect Australians, to protect their properties and that's exactly what we're doing through that Disaster Ready Fund, and there's a lot more to come on that front.
JOURNALIST:
I should say, is there more to come; do you have any plans in the coming Budget to release more disaster mitigation?
WATT:
Why don't I just touch quickly on this and give Jim a go? Just very narrowly in the disaster space, as I say, just this week we opened applications for our new Disaster Ready Fund, which we'll invest up to $200 million a year in disaster mitigation, so things like flood levees, drainage improvements, cyclone shelters, telecommunications upgrades, all those kinds of things, and that money will start flowing from 1 July, but what don't I give Jim a chance to add to that as well?
CHALMERS:
Natural disaster mitigation was a key focus of our first Budget in October, and it will be a key focus of our second budget in May as well. Now, one of the big shifts in the way that the national government has gone about thinking about natural disasters is that we will continue to respond adequately when natural disasters happen, but we'll also put much more effort, much more funding into natural disaster mitigation as well. If you think about the businesses and the employers that we spent time with today, whether it's at Norco or here at Mountain Blue, when a big flood event happens, the goal isn't just to get back exactly as things were before, it's to work out - how do we make our businesses, our communities and our country more resilient for the next natural disaster? Natural disasters are happening more and more frequently, partly as a consequence of climate change. So, we do need to get better, not just at responding to natural disasters, but doing what we can to make communities more resilient in the first place, and I work really closely with Murray and Justine and Janelle and others, who understand, as the employers of this region understand, that our investment needs to go into thinking about the next natural disaster and not just the last one, and where this fits into our broader economic plan. My job as the country's Treasurer is to make our economy more resilient, our budget more responsible, and absolutely central to both of those things is making sure we do a better job when it comes to natural disasters. If you think about the year ahead, all of the pressures from around the world, all of the consequences of higher interest rates on our economy, but one of the most important influences on our economy and on our country is how we respond to natural disasters and how we make communities more resilient in the first place.
ATTENDEE:
Can I just ask - with regard to the fact that this is obviously as a result of climate change all these disasters - can I ask what hope we can have that we're going to be taking the action and using all those tools in our toolbox to avert further worsening of the situation?
CHALMERS:
We're doing two things at once. First of all, we're putting in place an ambitious climate change policy after a decade of division and denial and delay. And our colleague, Chris Bowen, has made important announcements throughout the course of the week with Murray in Queensland about how we go about that. We've got ambitious emissions reductions targets, we've got plans for cleaner, cheaper, more reliable, increasingly renewable energy, because we understand in ways that our predecessors didn't, that climate change is a big risk to our country and also a big risk to our economy. And there are immense opportunities that flow from cleaner and cheaper and more reliable and increasingly renewable energy. At the same time, we're working very closely with governments of all persuasions and at all levels to make sure that we respond to and mitigate natural disasters more effectively in the interim. It is a scientific fact that natural disasters are becoming more frequent. It is a fact that climate change is playing a role here. We take our responsibilities very, very seriously. That's why we're acting in ambitious ways on climate change, but also in considered ways when it comes to natural disaster management.
JOURNALIST:
Are we going to continue to see the pressures on prices and cost of living from the floods in 2022? [inaudible]
CHALMERS:
Australians really right around the country are feeling the pressure and the pinch when it comes to the inflation challenge in our economy. It's been clear for some time - even before the election last year - that we do have an inflation problem in our economy. Those pressures are coming at us largely from around the world, but they're felt around the kitchen tables. That's why our first Budget in October was all about providing responsible cost‑of‑living relief without adding to those inflationary pressures. Now, one of the things which is pushing up the prices of groceries, particularly fruit and vegetables, is the fact that a lot of the flooding that we've seen over the course of the last 12 months is in some of our best agricultural, best producing communities. And that has obvious consequences for groceries that people buy in supermarkets right around Australia. So we've got an inflation challenge because of a combination of issues. The war in Ukraine is not helping because of what's happening in global energy markets. Obviously natural disasters are having an impact as well. Our job as the Government is to make sure that we're giving people help where we can in responsible, affordable, sensible ways without making this inflation problem worse.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
CHALMERS:
The Treasury forecasts in the October Budget were that inflation would peak around now - it remains to be seen if it has and if it will - but that inflation will be higher than we'd like for longer than we'd like. It's one of the reasons why we're providing relief when it comes to electricity prices. It's one of the reasons why we're making childcare cheaper. It's one of the reasons why we're working around the clock to get wages moving in this country again because people are under pressure. Because there are a number of things that governments can do, there's a number of things that we are doing to take some of the pressure and some of the sting out of these price pressures in our economy.
JOURNALIST:
$5 billion is a lot of money. That's what the estimate currently is. That's not even considering what's happening in the Kimberley at the moment. How concerned are you by this ever increasing cost of natural disaster for the Government?
CHALMERS:
Our primary concern when it comes to natural disasters is the human cost and the cost it imposes on communities, but there is a cost to budget and there is a cost to the economy. And the Treasury estimate is that the hit to economic activity in 2022, before the WA floods, was around $5 billion and that doesn't even include damage to assets, some of the other costs that we're seeing around the country. But what it shows is natural disasters are a big risk to our economy. It is one of the main factors playing out right now when it comes to our inflation problem, when it comes to our prospects for economic growth in 2023. If you think about the big influences on our economy this year: the war in Ukraine, COVID in China, prospects in the US and UK and Europe, the impact of interest rate rises, but also the impact of natural disaster flowing through our economy. I'm optimistic about the future of our economy but I'm realistic about the impact of some of these things on our economy in 2023. Most economists expect it to be a difficult year. We will get through it, we will get to the other side, our economy is still growing, but so are our challenges. The Government is very focused on doing what we can.
JOURNALIST:
Another area where people are hurting is using elective surgery [inaudible]
CHALMERS:
This is something that the Health Minister Mark Butler is very cognisant of. Whenever we can, whether it's in budgets or in between times, we try and make sure that we're making room in the budget to invest in our health system, to invest in Medicare, to invest in hospitals, to partner with the states, to make sure that we're funding health care adequately. And COVID‑19, of course, has had obvious implications for health care in this country and where we can, the federal government is making a contribution to alleviating that. No doubt Mark is in discussions with the AMA and with the state governments as are the rest of us. And we will do what we can to make sure that the health system is funded as it should be to make sure that we're meeting some of the challenges and pressures thrown up by what has been a pretty extraordinary couple of weeks.
ATTENDEE:
Can I ask a question about that? I'm a medical practitioner in town - a specialist. Lots of us were impacted by the flood, probably lost $15 million altogether. We've tried to rebuild, we rebuilt a certain amount. Like lots of businesses, we need more money. The problem is, of course, it flows onto the patients who don't get seen, they get seen later, they get poorer prognoses and things like that. It's 10 months now. We've been making representations through the AMA, through the rural doctors association, and through Janelle And Kevin. 10 months - we haven't heard anything, and it's really impacting us and the community and patients.
CHALMERS:
Thank you for raising it. Janelle raised it earlier this morning as well when we caught up for coffee in town, and I'm happy to raise that with the Health Minister.
JOURNALIST:
A question about Lismore because it's been hit so hard, and it had attracted $10 million in federal funding for a rail trail. Now, given the disaster that's happened, the council hasn't been able to meet that deadline and it's been told it's going to lose the money. Is that a fait accompli that it will lose that $10 million?
CHALMERS:
I'm happy to have discussions with Steve and with others about the future of that funding. Now, obviously, when something happens, like the flooding that happened in this community, you've got to recalibrate the commitments that you make and our highest priority right now is obviously the rebuild. But to the extent that I can make representations on behalf of the mayor and the community, that obviously I'm prepared to talk to the relevant colleagues about that.
JOURNALIST:
[inaudible]
CHALMERS:
One of the challenges in the Commonwealth budget, and in state budgets too and you feel it here in Lismore as well, is that the cost of building materials and the cost of finding workers - it's difficult and the costs are high and substantial. And so depending often when the various costings are done for these big infrastructure projects, we have to factor that in. Talking to members of the community today, we understand one of the big handbrakes on the national economy and on the economies of local communities like this one is being able to find workers and being able to find building materials and that flows through to our infrastructure costings as well. We work closely with Minister Catherine King and others to make sure that we can meet our commitments in a responsible and affordable way, whether it's in Victoria, whether it's in WA or whether it's here in this great town as well. Thanks very much.
