JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
 

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY AFTERNOON AGENDA
MONDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 2021

SUBJECTS: Economic recovery; The economy and the election; Stagnant wages; Climate change policies; Parliament.

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Joining me is the Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. Jim Chalmers, thanks for your time as always. Do you concede heading into this election season, as prolonged as it is, we're talking maybe seven months, that Australia is in a much better position than comparable nations?
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: So it should be, Kieran. The people of Australia have done the right thing by each other to limit the spread of the virus and to the extent that the economy is recovering, the credit belongs to them.  The economy's recovering despite the Morrison Government, not because of it. And we wouldn't have been in such a big hole this year in the economy were it not for the big mistakes that Scott Morrison made on vaccinations and quarantine and the early withdrawal of support.
 
GILBERT: So you say that even though evidence today out of Treasury saying that we've avoided that feared tidal wave of small business insolvencies and so on, because of government support?
 
CHALMERS: Well what they're saying is compared to the expectations they had. So that doesn't necessarily mean that the government's done a good job. It means partly that the expectations were out of whack. But regardless, we want to see fewer businesses hit the fence. That's been our priority all along, because employers and employees deserve to be supported through a very difficult period, especially those most recent lockdowns which were caused by the mistakes that Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg made. So we want the economy to recover strongly, but it's not a recovery if ordinary working families are left behind. It's not a recovery if all we go back to is the same stagnant wages and weak living standards and insecure employment and weak business investment, weak productivity and weak growth that we've had for much of the last eight years. And that's why the election, if they say the election is to be about the economy, then I say bring it on. Because an election about the economy is about all of those failures over the last eight years on wages and waste, but also about whether or not our economy and our society can be stronger after COVID than it was before. Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg just want to go back to all of that wage stagnation, all of that rorts and waste and a trillion dollars in debt. We think that Australians deserve better after all they’ve been through.
 
GILBERT: But if we look at the recent RBA Statement on Monetary Policy, it's not only saying that the growth rate next year is going to be upwards of 5 per cent. So humming along next year into the election. Wages growth, to go to the central point of what you're saying, wages growth will pick up in the near term, as wage freezes and cuts implemented in 2020 are unwound and labour market conditions tightened. So even on the wages front things are looking up?
 
CHALMERS: No Kieran, they're not. If you think about that Reserve Bank statement, of course when the economy's in such a deep hole as it has been in the September quarter this year, then you expect there to be a correction, a rebound, and often that number can look pretty big. But what the Reserve Bank Statement on Monetary Policy said is that over the medium term, the Australian economy will go back to below trend growth and when it comes to wages, it actually said to expect that the Government's woeful record on stagnant wages will continue. And if you look at the Government's own Budget Kieran, it says even after all we've been through real wages will go backwards over the next four years.
 
GILBERT: This statement last week says the medium term outlook for private sector wages growth is stronger than at the time of the August statement. So even in the RBA's words in a couple of months things are improving?
 
CHALMERS: It's not saying stronger than before Kieran, it's saying stronger than the last time they released a Statement on Monetary Policy, in the worst depths of the second dip of the downturn. What I'm saying is, if you look at that statement, it says that wages will go back to around the levels that they have been for much of the last eight years of this Government, which has been record low wages growth. And that's been a defining feature of their mismanagement of this economy. If they want to have an election on the economy, let's have an election about wages, let's have an election about waste. These are the defining features of their failures. The Reserve Bank Statement on Monetary Policy was bad news for wages, bad news for growth in the medium term. And I think it paints a picture of a Government whose highest aspiration is to go back to all of the ways that things were before when working families were finding it so difficult to work hard and get ahead.
 
GILBERT: Now, you've said repeatedly throughout the pandemic that the ultimate test, that absolutely the key test is jobs. The most important test of this Government's management of the recession is what happens to jobs and businesses which create them. If you look at jobs, the unemployment rate is expected to remain under 5 per cent down near 4 per cent next year, job ads out today are at a 13 year high. So on that front, things are looking better, aren't they?
 
CHALMERS: Well, first of all you expect the labour market to recover after its had two dips of downturns in the last two years. But what Josh Frydenberg has forgotten is that in the most recent labour market numbers 138,000 Australians lost their job in the month of September alone, and another 129,000 gave up looking altogether. And so I think when Josh Frydenberg talks about the strength of the labour market, he is forgetting hundreds of thousands of people that have dropped out of the labour market. It shows again, how out of touch he is with the real world and the real economy and what's happening in real communities. So again, if he wants to have an argument about what is actually going on in real communities around Australia, how working families are actually faring in the economy that he has mismanaged, then let's have that conversation. Because I think if you look at the economy, it's recovering in some ways, in some pleasing ways, and we welcome data when it's encouraging, but we need to recognise that the most recent labour market data was quite bad, we need to recognise that for a lot of people, the economy will be weaker for longer. And that is at least partly a function of this Prime Minister's attacks, and this Treasurer's attacks, on wages. And that's before we even get to their attacks on super, and Medicare and all of the rest.
 
GILBERT: On the climate response, Chris Bowen did not rule out changes to the safeguard mechanism yesterday, it looks like it's part of Labor's thinking on this. It's been endorsed by the Business Council of Australia, in fact, strengthening that safeguard mechanism which was put in place by the Coalition Government. Nonetheless, it looks like the Government's warming up a campaign to say this is a carbon tax by stealth. How do you respond to that?
 
CHALMERS: Well, there's a few points to make about that. I mean, first of all, the safeguard mechanism is Government policy! I mean, if you're looking for an example of why the Government has become such a joke on climate change specifically, and the economy more broadly, is because now they're attacking their own policy. I saw Chris Bowen talking with your former colleague yesterday on the TV, and he made the totally reasonable point that we will make our announcement on climate change policy in due course. The Government hasn't even released their modelling, as you and Andrew Clennell were just talking about a moment ago.  It's entirely reasonable for us to take the time to get our policy right. Chris didn't that rule in or out when he was talking to your former colleague. It's a Government policy that the Government is now attacking and I think that just shows what a joke that they've become on climate change and the economy more broadly. The Prime Minister is more interested in talking about Labor than working out getting cleaner and cheaper energy and grabbing those jobs and opportunities that flow from it. That's because he has a pamphlet for climate change and energy. We will have a plan that we take to the election, which will ensure that the opportunities and jobs and investment which flow from cleaner and cheaper energy won't go begging in the future if we’re elected, like they've gone begging for much of the last ten years.
 
GILBERT: Is it a risk that you baulk too much on this issue given how much paint you lost last time and on previous occasions?
 
CHALMERS: Yeah look I heard Andrew speculating about that, and trolling me a moment ago when he was doing his piece with you! I think the most important thing is we get the policy right. The politics will take care of themselves. If we've got the courage of our convictions, we come up with a policy and we argue for it and we say why it's important, and it's important because of the jobs and opportunities that come from it, then I am supremely confident that we can win an argument, not just about climate change and emissions as important as that is, but cleaner and cheaper energy and jobs and opportunities and investment, particularly in the regions.
 
GILBERT: Now you're Shadow Treasurer of course, a senior role. You weren't here at Parliament last time. Why is that? Were you staying in Queensland in case the Prime Minister called an early election?
 
CHALMERS: Oh look, I saw that written. Obviously that's part of the equation Kieran but mostly because I wasn't going to be able to do the two weeks of quarantine when I returned. Members of both sides of the Parliament have made the best decisions that they can based on their own family and other circumstances. There were members missing from both sides of the Parliament and what we've tried to do is to be understanding where that's been necessary. I wasn't able to quarantine when I got back so I didn't make it down there. I will be there for the next setting fortnight in the second half of this month.
 
GILBERT: So does that mean you’ve got to quarantine in to Christmas? No, I guess the borders reopen December 17 anyway.
 
CHALMERS: I think I have to quarantine for the first couple of weeks of December.
 
GILBERT: Alright, Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. Talk to you soon, appreciate it.
 
CHALMERS: Thanks Kieran.
 
ENDS