E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY AFTERNOON AGENDA
TUESDAY, 22 SEPTEMBER 2020
 
SUBJECT: JobKeeper; JobSeeker; State borders.
 
KIERAN GILBERT, SKY: Let's bring in the Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. He joins us this afternoon. Jim Chalmers, if you were in government, would you extend JobKeeper beyond March? As Andrew Clennell reported, the budget is set to have that wage subsidy finish after the first quarter?
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: I think it's very concerning, Kieran, that the Government has a plan to cut JobKeeper but they don't have a jobs plan to replace it. I think it's troubling in two ways. First of all, we have always said of our support for the JobKeeper program overall that it needs to be a tailored to the economic conditions. We need to make sure that it's not withdrawn too soon. Obviously, some businesses will recover sufficiently that they won't need it anymore, but many won't. That would be a concerning development if the Government didn't tailor JobKeeper support to businesses that need it and to the economic conditions. But far more troubling in the near-term is that next week the Government will be cutting JobKeeper. We don't know what the economy will look like in March next year but we do know what the economy looks like now. It's too soon for the Government to be withdrawing that support from the economy for millions of workers, businesses, and local economies which are relying on that JobKeeper support right now.
 
GILBERT: You said at the start, though, that you supported the wage subsidy. That was before the Government committed to it. Why not say before the Government does announce in the budget that it's going to end in March - why can't you give a commitment and say, look it should continue well beyond the first quarter of next year?
 
CHALMERS: Because the overwhelming priority here, Kieran, has to be to tailor the economic support to conditions in the economy. That's why we're very concerned, as is much of the business community and millions of workers around Australia, about the early cutting of JobKeeper next week. If the Government is in such a rush to withdraw JobKeeper next week or early next year we desperately need to see a comprehensive jobs plan to replace it. We don't have that. We've got lots of spin; we've got lots of pre-positioning; lots of smoke signals in the usual way in advance of this budget, but we still don't have from the Government a comprehensive jobs plan. You're right to point out that Labor called for wage subsidies. We actually welcomed the Government's change of heart when they came to our view. We need to make sure that those JobKeeper wage subsidies are doing all the good that they can in the economy. Part of that is making sure that it goes to businesses and workers who genuinely need it. We don't yet know what the economy will look like in March. We need to make sure that support is tailored to conditions in the economy. Part of recognising that need is not withdrawing that JobKeeper support too soon.
 
GILBERT: How much would it cost to keep JobKeeper though, at the current levels? You're saying it shouldn't be tapered now, but kept at the current levels until the end of the first quarter?
 
CHALMERS: The Government has those costings. We know that the extension means that the entire JobKeeper program adds up to about $100 billion. We also know that comes after the biggest budget blunder in the history of the Commonwealth, when the Government originally got those costings wrong. They've got all of those costings. We're calling for JobKeeper not to be cut prematurely. There are lots of ways to do that by determining eligibility, the rate, and all the rest of it. That is exclusively the preserve of the Treasurer under the existing legislation. We're really making two points. They should be pretty obvious points and should be accepted by the Government. First of all, don't cut it too early; next week is too early. Secondly, tailor it to the conditions in the economy. If you're going to do that, also recognise that if the Government is going to be in such a rush to pull out JobKeeper from the economy for all those workers and businesses who still need it, it needs to be replaced by a comprehensive jobs plan but there's no sign of that yet.
 
GILBERT: If you're going to commit to maintaining JobKeeper, though, is it incumbent upon you and the Opposition to use the Parliamentary Budget Office to get the costings, to know exactly what you're talking about in terms of how much it's going to cost?
 
CHALMERS: I think the public knows how much the JobKeeper program costs. There are different ways that you could extend it, different timeframes, different eligibility and all of that. We need to recognise unfortunately that no matter what happens we won't be the government for at least another 12 months. We're talking about an urgent need. In terms of JobKeeper cuts we're talking about next Monday. We obviously won't be the government between now and then as much as I wish things were different. I think our role is really clear; it's to be supportive where we can be and as we were with the introduction of JobKeeper, but also to point out where it's being implemented poorly, withdrawn too quickly, and where it's not being tailored to the economic conditions. Those are our priorities. We make those points on behalf of millions of Australians and the businesses that they work for.
 
GILBERT: Do you support the second tier of JobKeeper? Those who work less to receive less? That's a more tailored approach?
 
CHALMERS: We've said for some time that the original design didn't make a lot of sense. We pointed to those that were needlessly exuded from the program like casual workers, aviation workers, university workers, arts and entertainment workers, and others. We had the capacity to point out where some room could be made in the existing program for those people to be included. We've said for some time that for people who were earning $100 or $200 a week who were all of a sudden earning $750 a week, that there was an opportunity there. I think the biggest issue and concern is for all of those workers who were on $1500 now going to $1200 next Monday before many businesses are ready for that and certainly before the broader economy is ready for that. This is principally about the workers and businesses but one of the things that we don't recognise often enough is that from next Monday there will be a lot of money pulled out of the economy. That has consequences for our retail sector and other parts of the economy in local communities right around Australia.
 
GILBERT: JobKeeper looks like it's going to phase out and then be removed. There are various reports the Government is looking at, including one that my colleague, Andrew Clennell mentioned, about an incentive for employers to take on people like the Keating 'Working Nation' payment of $300, which I think disappeared after a few months, maybe six months at the most. Do those sorts of incentives work, do you think?
 
CHALMERS: Let's see what they come forward with Kieran. We've heard those rumours before. Unfortunately we're about six months into this crisis, in the teeth of the worst recession in almost a century, and all we get is half reports in newspapers and on TV about what the Government might be contemplating. This is not about making announcements, this is about getting outcomes for people, principally in the labour market because what happens to jobs in the next little while will determine whether people can provide for their loved ones. It's that simple. These little half announcements that we get from time to time, even often the full announcements that we get from the Government, are no substitute for an actual jobs plan which actually delivers employment for more people and makes sure that we can avoid what often accompanies these recessions, which is long-term unemployment turning into long-term disadvantage, which cascades through generations. That's what we're trying to avoid here. Announcements and spin won't address those substantial issues.
 
GILBERT: One of the things that you've been saying for a long time, along with Jennifer Westacott of the BCA, Chris Richardson from Deloitte, and John Howard is that Newstart was too low. Is a time for Labor to be definitive on what the Jobseeker payment, as it's now known, should be? Because it's not just the equity issue. There's also the economic impact isn't there of pulling out that amount of spending at a time of very weak growth?
 
CHALMERS: Kieran we've campaigned very forcefully, very strongly for some time now to argue against a return to the old $40 a day. That would be catastrophic for individuals looking for work, but also catastrophic for the economy. That is the point that John Howard, KPMG, the BCA, ACOSS and others have been making for some time. When it comes to the precise number and the new level of JobSeeker we don't even know what payment we will inherit if we came to government this time next year or sometime after that. The Government has left people hanging in terms of what the rate will be even after Christmas this year. We don't know what we'll inherit. We don't have a proper update of the budget; we've only got half an update on the budget. For all of these reasons, it would be irresponsible in the near-term to nominate a number. But we've made our priorities and our principles really clear. $40 a day isn't enough to support yourself on, it isn't enough to look for work on, and it's bad for the economy which is suffering from a lack of spending power.
 
GILBERT: On the issue of spending power, the Australia Institute is running a campaign, with Bernie Fraser and John Hewson among those who have backed this argument they're making against the next round of tax cuts being brought forward, saying it won't create jobs, and won't boost economic activity. What's your assessment of that analysis?
 
CHALMERS: It's no substitute for a comprehensive jobs plan. That's what we really need. What we're trying to do is to say that the Government doesn't have a blank cheque here. Let's see what they actually announce in the budget and see if they do announce a bringing forward of tax cuts. Clearly we listen to all of those voices in the community who would prefer that the Government took another path or an additional path in terms of supporting the economy. There is obviously a need for assistance for people in the economy. Things are still pretty grim for a lot of Australians. We need to work out the best way to support them. Just bringing forward some tax cuts is something that we would look at if the Government did it but it's no substitute for that proper jobs plan that we really need to see.
 
GILBERT: Finally, on the state borders, we're starting to see Premiers move. Only 180 full time jobs in the most recent numbers out of 180,000 around the nation were in Queensland; 180 new full time jobs. It's pretty clear that the shut border is having a massive impact on the economy up there.
 
CHALMERS: Nobody wants to see the border closed for any longer than is responsible and reasonable. I think any objective observer of the Queensland economy would conclude that the worst thing that we could have up here would be another outbreak of the virus. That would be crippling for so many businesses in this state. The Premier has done the right thing and been resolute, been strong, taking the medical advice, making these difficult decisions to protect Queensland and its people and its businesses from another outbreak. What we've seen today, which I believe people will welcome in my community, is the sense that the Premier has these arrangements under more or less constant review, is listening to that medical advice, and where it's possible to relax some of these restrictions she'll do that, but where it's necessary for her to make big difficult decisions to protect the place then she'll do that too.
 
GILBERT: Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. Thanks as always.
 
CHALMERS: Thank you Kieran.
 
ENDS