JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS AFTERNOON AGENDA
WEDNESDAY, 27 JANUARY 2021

SUBJECTS: World Economic Outlook Update warns of ‘exceptional uncertainty’; Australia’s patchy economic recovery; JobKeeper cuts to hurt struggling sectors; Coalition’s 22 energy policies adding to market uncertainty; Lack of commitment to net zero emissions risking jobs and trade relationships; Deteriorating relations with China.

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Let's go live to the Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers. Mr Chalmers, thanks very much for your time. You heard the Treasurer there talk about the IMF Economic Outlook. He’s quite optimistic about the year ahead, do you share his optimism?

JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: G’day Kieran. Look, the IMF report said that the global economy is recovering but there's still a lot of uncertainty, and that we need to be conscious of the lag in the labour market, some of the unemployment effects, the fact that people can't get enough work to support their families around the world, including here. Josh Frydenberg’s argument appeared to be that our recession, which was the worst in almost a century here in Australia, is not quite as bad as the UK’s recession, when the UK is in all sorts of trouble. So I don't think that that comparison is especially helpful to the more than 2 million Australians who can't find a job or can't find enough hours, and the millions of Australians who are working but are suffering under wages which have been stagnant for the duration of this coalition government.

GILBERT: It is fair to say though isn't it that Australia is among one of the best placed nations in the world right now as we see what the IMF predicts will be a faster than expected recovery?

CHALMERS: Well, so we should be, Kieran. I mean we've collectively done as a nation and its people a better job than other nations of limiting the spread of the virus. That credit should be broadly shared right around the Australian community and at all levels of government; business and others should be pleased with that. We welcome the fact that Australia has done a better job limiting the spread of the virus than others and that's been part of the secret to the fact that parts of our economy are recovering, we welcome that wholeheartedly. But in doing that we need to recognise that there are significant parts of our economy which are still struggling. There are still small businesses and workers and industries and particular regions and towns which are still doing it incredibly tough. I was in Cairns in Far North Queensland last week speaking with workers and small businesses and peak organisations. Cairns is a town which is more or less on JobKeeper life support and the government now wants to pull the plug at the end of March. Our message to the government is that instead of clamouring all over themselves to pat themselves on the back, to say that our recession is not as bad as the UK’s recession or the US’s, how about they recognise that there are still people doing it tough in Australia - more than 2 million, as I said - plus all of the small businesses and others, and they need to recognise that. They need to not be in a rush to declare victory over this recession when the IMF and others have all pointed to the fact that there is still a lot of uncertainty, particularly in the labour market.

GILBERT: I spoke to the Tourism and Trade Minister Dan Tehan earlier and put to him, specifically, will there be support for the tourism industry beyond JobKeeper? The very strong indication is the JobKeeper will wrap up in March. But again, the indication from the Minister is that yes, there will be support for the tourism sector, and not just the big companies like Qantas, but the mum and dad companies that I think you're alluding to in Far North Queensland and elsewhere?

CHALMERS: I managed to catch part of that interview and especially that bit about JobKeeper and I think what the Tourism Minister, indeed the entire Morison government fails to understand is that when they go around announcing these packages of support, the announcement is not the thing that helps small businesses and workers in communities like Cairns. And there has been an abject failure in many instances of the government having announced packages of support, to actually follow through and to get that support out the door. I've done a lot of consultation with industries in heavily affected areas like Far North Queensland and elsewhere as well and the very clear message from the businesses and peak organisations is that there is no substitute for that targeted JobKeeper support when the government wants to pull the plug in March. There's a lot of cynicism - and I think it's deserved - about a government which wanders around announcing these big buckets of money and then can't actually provide support. And so I think there's a lot of fear, a lot of trepidation - not just in the tourism industry or the part of tourism that relies on international travel - but also all of the other businesses that support the tourism industry, there's not a clear line there. And so in towns like Cairns but also in parts of Tasmania and other parts of Australia, by pulling the plug on that life support, it will create substantial hardship in communities, a lot of jobs will be lost and a lot of small businesses will hit the fence.

GILBERT: So would you like to see JobKeeper remain for at least the tourism sector, until the international markets reopen?

CHALMERS: We’ve made it really clear for some time now Kieran, as we've gone about constructively trying to help the government get to the right policy conclusions, that we want to see support targeted to areas that need it most. As it stands, the government would prefer this JobKeeper money go to puff-up executive bonuses in Sydney and Melbourne and elsewhere, then to go to small businesses in Cairns or part of Tasmania. And that's clearly not a good use of taxpayer money. So what we've said is that it shouldn't be beyond the government to think about what kind of targeted, responsible, affordable support can continue to be provided - ideally through the JobKeeper system - but if there are better ideas, let’s hear them, so that we don't have these businesses, which rely so heavily on international travel, or other parts of the economy that are doing it tough, don't just leave them in the lurch and leave them behind on that last week in March, when there's a clear need for them to be supported for a little bit longer.

GILBERT: To a few other matters, my colleague Andrew Clennell reporting that the government might be left high and dry with this demand that the private sector build a new gas-fired power plant in the Hunter. Should the federal or state government be underwriting a new gas plant in the Hunter?

CHALMERS: Before you consider even those matters Kieran, I think the most important thing here is certainty for investment in the energy sector. Whether it's in gas, whether it's in renewable energy, or other forms of energy, the really important missing ingredient here is certainty. And the reason that we don't have that certainty is because the Prime Minister makes all kinds of announcements on the run, he’s had something like 22 different energy policies over the life of this government. They're at war with the state governments at different times, trying to pass the buck and try not to be accountable themselves. There are hints that the government might get involved in building power stations themselves, and all of these things are a recipe for energy market uncertainty and that's what's holding back the investment that we need to get cleaner and cheaper energy into the system. And so before you even consider this latest scoop by Andrew when it comes to that the federal-state issues over gas, the really important missing ingredient is the thing that we've tried to be constructive about. Anthony Albanese and Mark Butler wrote to the government in June last year and said let's settle the basic landscape of energy investment in this country so that businesses and investors know what they're investing into, let's agree to net zero by 2050 so people know what the trajectory looks like and all the rest of it. The government hasn't done that they've preferenced announcements over delivery and that's why you get this kind of confusion and that's why we haven't had the investment that we need.

GILBERT: Do you think there are flow on impacts in an international sense? Joe Biden warning about tariffs on carbon quotas and so on if countries aren't doing what he believes, his Administration believes, is the right thing when it comes to climate response. Is that a risk internationally, that sort of trade blowback?

CHALMERS: It certainly is Kieran, I mean already we know that the Prime Minister's refusal to commit to net zero emissions by 2050 puts at risk some of those new jobs and opportunities that we desperately need in our economy, but we also know that it puts it at risk some of our really important trading relationships. Around the world I think something like 70% of our trading partners have got that net zero commitment in place. Here domestically we've got all the peak organisations, the business groups, the major exporters, the states and territories, everybody seems to agree that we need to lock in that target, so that we're not increasingly isolated in the international community, and so that we don't miss out on those jobs and opportunities. And it beggars belief that when the case is so clear, Scott Morrison won't sign up to that and in refusing to do so, puts the jobs and opportunities at risk, but also leaves us isolated in the international community.

GILBERT: Speaking of the international community, one of the most difficult - the most difficult - relationship in the last little while has been with China. Dan Tehan indicated he's written to his counterpart. He wants to try and see an impasse in this very low relationship we've got at the moment with Beijing. Is this the sort of action you want to see from the Morison government?

CHALMERS: Well, we genuinely hope that the appointment of a new Trade Minister is a bit of a circuit breaker in this relationship with China. There are a lot of jobs at stake here and I don't think anyone could conclude that the relationship has been well managed over recent years. Obviously, it's a complex, difficult relationship, China is becoming and has become more assertive, but the relationship has not been well managed. And so genuinely, in the interests of our exporters and our employers, we want the Trade Minister to succeed with these efforts. There's a lot of work to do here. The relationship has run down. Our exporters are incredibly concerned, and I speak to a lot of them about their concerns. So I think the whole country needs the government to do a much better job managing the relationship in the coming months and years than they have in recent months and years.

GILBERT: Mr Albanese says that the government should appoint special envoys special envoys on this issue – Kevin Rudd, John Howard - what sort of achievement or development would that appointment see from the government, what's the aim there?

CHALMERS: I think when the relationship is in the condition that it’s in – objectively, it’s in pretty bad nick at the moment - I think you need to think a little bit outside the square, you need to think creatively about how we deploy our best talents and the all of the experience that's accumulated - considerable experience, when you think about former Prime Ministers Rudd and Howard. Obviously former Prime Minister Keating has a lot of informed interest in China too. So I think the point that Anthony has been making along with Penny Wong and others is that when the relationship’s been rundown like this, there's a lot at stake, a lot of jobs at stake in particular, then let's be creative, let's think outside the box, and let's deploy really anyone with the relevant experience and interest here, to try and right the ship. Because failing to right the ship means that there are jobs and opportunities that go begging, at a time when jobs and opportunities aren't exactly thick on the ground.

GILBERT: Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers, appreciate it. Talk to you soon.

CHALMERS: Thank you, Kieran.

ENDS