E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS AM AGENDA
THURSDAY, 1 DECEMBER 2016
SUBJECT/S: parliamentary protests; backpacker tax; ABCC; big business tax cut and AAA credit rating
KIERAN GILBERT: So testing the security again, these protesters, as we can see from those images again this morning. With me to discuss that and the other issues of the day, Jim Chalmers. Jim, first of all, to those protesters you can see hanging from the building itself today. So another test of the security services here, but peaceful protests nonetheless.
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: I should say, Kieran, that the security guards yesterday did such a terrific job, which they always do. I thought the Speaker handled it very well yesterday as well. I don't personally get too hung up; I don't think we should overreact in either direction really when we have these sorts of protesters. There are processes in place. It's good that they get reviewed from time to time and it's good that they get reviewed now so that we're striking the best balance between letting people have their say and the safety of the people who were in and around the building.
GILBERT: I want to ask you about the specifics of a few of these issues around today. First of all, the backpacker tax. The Prime Minister was here just a few moments ago making the point that if you saw a reduction to below 15 per cent, then effectively seasonal workers from Fiji, from Tonga, from the Pacific, some of our poorest neighbours; it would be detrimental to them to be undercutting them for backpackers say from wealthy nations like Germany, Sweden, elsewhere.
CHALMERS: This is just an indication of how desperate the Prime Minister's become as his policy crashes down around him. He's grasping at straws. He's trying to introduce, at five minutes to midnight, all of these other arguments that apply to completely different programs. They've been lying about changes that happened under Labor. The fact is, in the 2015 Budget, they wanted to jack up the tax from zero to 32.5 per cent. They keep declaring victory and saying "oh, well we've struck a new agreement". The Treasurer was humiliated on Monday when he declared victory at 19 per cent. There's a shambles as far as the eye can see.
GILBERT: But is it time now for Labor to compromise? Because it seems a valid point to make - that, if seasonal workers who pay remittances home, it's an important stream of income for those poorer neighbours. It's a form of aid in a sense, the reduced tax rate for seasonal workers. Is it time now for Labor to say "OK, made the point, let's compromise at 15 per cent"? It's still competitive internationally.
CHALMERS: It's an entirely different program. As you say, it's part of Australia's aid structure. The most important thing that we need to align with is the Kiwi rate for backpackers. It is long past time for the Government to say, as we've been saying for some time, "let's give our regional economies some certainty; let's give our farmers some certainty; let's vote for the 10.5 per cent that the Senate has twice voted for". This is a shambles as far as the eye can see. The Government has made this mess since the 2015 Budget. It's incumbent on them that they clean it up today.
GILBERT: But the farmers say, and we've spoken to Fiona Simpson – I've got that interview for our viewers in a moment. But she says if you go beyond the 15 per cent, then farmers will be paying three different tax rates. You've got the Aussie workers, then the 15 per cent seasonal workers, then 10.5 or 13 per cent depending on what gets through.
CHALMERS: With the greatest respect to her, I think her members would be most pleased if the Parliament agreed today to the 10.5 per cent rate that the Senate has twice voted for.
GILBERT: Now, if the Government doesn't budge, will Labor consider any further compromise. Is there any movement here?
CHALMERS: We've put our policy on the table and we think 10.5 is the right rate –
GILBERT: So no compromise?
CHALMERS: Well it aligns with the Kiwi rate, which is important. We've already moved. We've already given the Government a way out of this mess that they created in the 2015 Budget and we're sticking to it.
GILBERT: What about the Building and Construction Commission. Today, the Prime Minister claims a vindication on the double dissolution election.
CHALMERS: (Laughter) I saw that interview as I waited to come in and have a yarn with you, Kieran. It's just laughable. It's a sign of how far the Prime Minister's diminished; that getting this version of this bill up after months and months of trying is some grand victory. And what it shows is – in a Government that is defined by division and dysfunction and incompetence, what they have been reduced to; and what the Prime Minister's been reduced to; and his Government's agenda has been reduced to, is bashing workers, bashing migrants and clinging to a $50 billion tax cut, which will jeopardise Australia's AAA credit rating. That's how they finish the year. They finish the year in a more diminished state than they began.
GILBERT: So the watchdog though? It's a reality, or it will be. And as the Prime Minister points out in various elements to it, it comes in from the time of royal assent of the bill.
CHALMERS: The reason I was proud not to support the bill, Kieran, is that it's a bad bill; it's bad policy. The last time the ABCC was in place, there were actually more worker fatalities and lower productivity the last time the bill was in place. The Prime Minister has claimed in Question Time, in election ads, all throughout the year, that there will be this immediate boost to the economy from the passage of this bill. And that somehow, miraculously, building costs will go down 30 per cent. Now it's a real test for the Prime Minister whether or not those things happen. He's claimed that they will be the benefits. He's got this one-point plan for the economy. I am deeply sceptical that there will be the gains and I'm very worried that it treats workers in one industry as guilty until proven innocent.
GILBERT: But isn't it true that the militant nature of the construction unions has caused problems for those in the sector across our capital cities for a number of years? That the behaviour hasn't been what it should be?
CHALMERS: There are ways to deal with that. There are the relevant agencies and the police. And anyone who does the wrong thing on a building site should have the book thrown at them. We have no tolerance for people doing the wrong thing. This bill is about something entirely different. It's part of Tony Abbott's anti-worker, ideological legislation. The Prime Minister wants a round of applause for implementing it, because he's got so little else to point to.
GILBERT: You could win the next election, as we well know. You're ahead in the polls and, if you do, then you would see that as an opportunity to remove elements of this ABCC before they're even taking effect in terms of that 24 month transition. That creates even more uncertainty for the sector, doesn't it?
CHALMERS: We'll obviously have more to say about it from Bill and Brendan and others between now and the next election, but we've never supported the ABCC bill. We don't support it now for the reasons that I've outlined to you.
GILBERT: Let's wrap up with a discussion on Chris Bowen's address to the Press Club this week. Very interesting contribution to the debate about the timeline and the trajectory of debt in this country. But it looks like Standard & Poor's has given the Government until May to the Budget to get further savings. Is it time now for you and Mr Bowen to lead a discussion within Labor to find many more savings than you've already put forward? I know you keep saying negative and that sort of thing, but even with that, there was still a multi-billion dollar black hole across the forward estimates in comparison to the Government's spending plans.
CHALMERS: That is our job. Our job constantly, day to day – and I've said to you before – is to try to find ways to improve the Budget, but in a fair way; not the way the Government's going about it. The truth about the AAA is, Australia can have a AAA credit rating, or it can have a $50 billion gift to big multinational corporations, but it can't have both. And so the ball is in the Government's court. They should abandon that $50 billion tax cut – that will do more than anything else that's on the table to help avoid a AAA downgrade, which would push of the cost of mortgages.
GILBERT: Well that looks like it's not going to get through anyway, so that could well be a blessing in disguise for them. They'll get some of the tax cuts through though.
CHALMERS: The Prime Minister was on another station last night describing it as a "big business” tax cut by the way, after they've been claiming for some time it's all about the little guys. He described it as a “big business” tax cut. He will cling to that and, for as long as they cling to that $50 billion tax cut, our AAA credit rating will be at risk.
GILBERT: Shadow Finance Minister Jim Chalmers, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much for that.
CHALMERS: Thank you.
