KIERAN GILBERT: Let's go live to the Shadow Finance Minister, Jim Chalmers. Jim Chalmers, thanks very much for your time. It looks like the Government's not confirming it but they'll match, at the very least, the Labor Party income tax cuts before the next election. Would Labor likely step those up even further before the election due in May?
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: That's just speculation at this stage, Kieran. I think it remains the case that Labor's got bigger, fairer tax cuts for low and middle income earners. We are very proud of the policy that we've put on the table some months ago now. I think there is a recognition in the community that if people on low and middle incomes want a fair shake in this country they need a Labor Government.
 
GILBERT: When you look at the numbers out this week, the Final Budget Outcome, I know you have been focusing a lot on the net debt, however when you look at the trajectory of the economy though things are heading in the right direction. That growth rate was quite extraordinary.
 
CHALMERS: Well, there are billions of dollars rolling through the door in to the budget, courtesy of those remarkably good global economic conditions that we've had and yet still we have in the Liberal budget record debt and deficits much bigger than what they predicted back in 2014. We've actually just seen a really extraordinary gaffe from Stuart Robert, the Assistant Treasurer. Is it any wonder that Scott Morrison describes his own Government as a muppet show when you have a Treasury minister who can't even tell the difference between debt and deficit? Stuart Robert just said then that debt is at $10 billion dollars, which is the lowest its been for some years. Somebody needs to tell the poor fellow that that is the deficit number, the $10 billion number. Debt is actually at record highs. Gross debt is around $530 billion, the highest its ever been. Net debt is something like $340 billion, which is double what they inherited from Labor. So that's a really extraordinary gaffe that Stuart Robert has just made. We have a Treasury minister in Scott Morrison's Government who doesn't know the difference between debt and deficit. Is it any wonder he describes his own Government as a muppet show as a consequence.
 
GILBERT: When you look at the interim report tomorrow, possibly as early as tomorrow certainly by Sunday of Royal Commissioner Hayne. The Assistant Treasurer made I think the obvious point that you can't, it's very hard to regulate human behaviour and to ensure no scandals in to the future. Do you concede that that is a valid point? That it's the actual executives that need to change their culture as well here?
 
CHALMERS: It's only one part of it Kieran. I was very disappointed, but not especially surprised to hear what the Assistant Treasurer said a few moments ago. He ran up the white flag again on fixing some of these problems that we've seen in the Royal Commission in our financial system. He repeated the quite extraordinary claim that he's made before that it's really up to the banks to fix up their own mess. That is obviously and woefully inadequate. Very disappointing but not surprising given this is a government that voted time and time again to deny Australians the justice they need and deserve with this Royal Commission. Scott Morrison himself voted against this Royal Commission 26 times. They delayed it for a couple of years. That really is their form when it comes to running this protection racket for the banks. We think that Commissioner Hayne has done a terrific job so far. Were it up to us we would have extended the time and resources that he had because we haven't heard enough from the victims of these rorts and ripoffs. We do expect that the report to be a professional one, a well considered one given Commissioner Hayne and his team have done such a good job to date.
 
GILBERT: When you look to the response though, the Government's already toughening up the powers for ASIC with penalties going from, well increasing five fold from $200,000 to $1.05 million for civil contraventions. Do you welcome moves like that in terms of toughening up the penalties against executives themselves?
 
CHALMERS: Yeah, we've been very supportive Kieran, of the various measures that have been announced over the last little while but we've made the obvious point, which is they of themselves are not adequate to get to the bottom of these rorts and ripoffs and to deal with them properly. The Royal Commission will play an important role in doing that in a comprehensive way and like the rest of the country we await Commissioner Hayne's conclusions with a lot of interest.
 
GILBERT: Yeah indeed. It's going to be read very closely and then of course the final report in February of next year. Jim Chalmers, on to another matter which is obviously dominating a lot of focus, the national broadcaster and its Chairman. The Managing Director is gone. The Chairman looks like he's holding on by a thread. What are your thoughts on his behaviour given those reports from Sharri Markson today in the Telegraph and previous reports in relation to his suggestion that Emma Alberici and now Andrew Probyn be sacked? It's quite extraordinary if that all turns out to be, you know factual email correspondence from the Chairman.
 
CHALMERS: Well it's an extraordinary mess Kieran. You're right about that. The Chairman has not yet given a full account of what's gone on here. He has a lot of explaining to do and a lot of people in the commentary you read would consider his position to be untenable. The point that I would make is that this is first and foremost an issue of political interference. This sort of mess is the inevitable consequence of the climate and the culture that has been created by the Government. Political interference, going after journalists whose reports they don't like, implying that funding of the ABC is linked in some way to coverage. These are all appalling developments from a Government which mouths the platitudes of ABC independence at the same time as they work around the clock to undermine it.
 
GILBERT: When will Labor just simply say that he's got to go, basically that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable?
 
CHALMERS: Well, firstly he needs to give a proper explanation of what's gone on here but you know obviously if these sorts of things are true that would make it very hard for him to stick around. But that doesn't let the Government off the hook. The point that we are making is that whoever the Chairman is or isn't, whoever the Managing Director is or isn't, the main problem here is the climate and the culture of political interference and threatening behaviour and standing over journalists, which this Government has done repeatedly and habitually. That is the main problem here, the issues around political interference. The other issues will take care of themselves. They begin with a proper explanation and a proper account of what's gone on here. But really it's the Government ministers who are at fault here and they should be the main target of our criticism.
 
GILBERT: Finally, the detail, just quickly in relation to energy bills. The Government's moves new regulations to prevent bill shock, or power bill shock when people have their bills and rates changed overnight. Is this sufficient in your view in terms of giving people notice if there is to be any change by the retailers?
 
CHALMERS: Well, it's not sufficient overall Kieran. These sorts of measures from time to time are welcome but they are no substitute for a proper energy policy. The reason we've got higher power prices in this country is because Scott Morrison's muppet show can't get their act together and actually come up with an energy policy, and so people can't invest with any certainty. That has a detrimental impact on renewables. It has a detrimental impact on jobs in the sector and it means prices are higher than they would otherwise be. It's possible to see these sorts of half measures as welcome but they are no substitute for what really needs to be done, which is to have a comprehensive energy policy which gives people the certainty they need and deserve.
 
GILBERT: Shadow Finance Minister Jim Chalmers we are out of time. We'll talk to you soon.