JIM CHALMERS MP
SHADOW TREASURER
MEMBER FOR RANKIN
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
TODAY SHOW
MONDAY, 28 MARCH 2022
SUBJECTS: Budget 2022; Fuel excise; Debt and deficits; Infrastructure delivery; Election timing.
KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Welcome back to the show. Do you smell that everyone? That's the Budget cooking. All that money and cash. Treasurer Josh Frydenberg planning a massive Budget giveaway tomorrow night. Let's discuss with Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers in Canberra, and Deputy Editor of the Daily Telegraph Anna Caldwell in the studio. Morning guys, nice to see you this morning at the start of a working week. Jim, what does it smell like to you - big debt or what?
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW TREASURER: It's Budget week in Canberra, Karl. All the glitz and glamour, it's a bit like the Oscars.
(LAUGHTER)
STEFANOVIC: Said no one, ever!
CHALMERS: There'll be spreadsheets as far as the eye can see. There'll be calculators, and long socks, and cardigans.
(LAUGHTER)
CHALMERS: It's a big week here. I think everybody knows that the election has to be called within the next couple of weeks. I think most people see this as a big taxpayer funded election campaign launch from the Government. If they cared about these cost of living pressures that they're talking about now, they wouldn't have come after people's wages for ten years.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. Anna, it's a tricky balance isn't it though? The election favourites and fiscal responsibility?
ANNA CALDWELL, DAILY TELEGRAPH: Yeah, that's right. Huge, huge challenge ahead of the Government here and there'll be hoping for a reset and a bounce ahead of calling an election. Cost of living is obviously on everybody's mind, and to be frank they've set expectations very high. You know, we've been talking about a cost of living Budget, people are going to expect sweeteners. But of course, as you say, the challenge the Government has then is to balance that with fiscal responsibility because these guys will be right after them if they don't.
STEFANOVIC: They're also spending a bit too. Okay, let's go through what we know this morning Jim and what you'll support. The fuel tax cut by between 10 and 20 cents, yes or no?
CHALMERS: Most probably, but let's have a look at how much it costs and how they've designed it.
STEFANOVIC: But you'll support it?
CHALMERS: We've said - pretty much across the board, Karl - that if there's responsible cost of living relief for families then we'll be up for that. We've been pretty constructive and responsible the last few years for sure, but we've got to weigh it against all the other considerations too. I think Anna just hit the nail on the head, we've got this trillion dollars in debt, every dollar that they spend tomorrow night will be a borrowed dollar. We want to see that responsible cost of living relief but we also want to see a plan for the future not just to plan for an election campaign.
STEFANOVIC: You're not spending less though. What about helping first homebuyers, yes or no?
CHALMERS: Yeah, they copied our policy today for regional first time buyers. That's a good thing as far as we're concerned. It won't solve the whole problem, we'll have more to say about housing.
STEFANOVIC: And almost $18 billion on transport projects, yes or no?
CHALMERS: These guys make these big announcements before every election and before every Budget, but they often don't actually build anything. Let's see what they actually deliver not what they whisper to the newspapers the day before the Budget.
STEFANOVIC: Okay, but not actually a no on any of those measures that the Government will introduce during Budget?
CHALMERS: Well, let's see what they look like Karl. There's a reasonable chance that there'll be petrol excise cut. Of course, we're unlikely to stand in the way of that, but the responsible thing for us to do is to have a look at it. Some of these other initiatives as well are really expected, the least the Government could do. Our issue is really that the Government's been in office for almost a decade now. They've come after people's wages and job security and now on the eve of an election they want people to think that they actually care about cost of living pressures. They're just pretending to care about these cost of living pressures because we're on the eve of an election.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. Anna, they've got their helmets on, Labor, and they're going in nice and gentle aren't they?
CALDWELL: That's right. The proof will be in the pudding, as you say. Labor doesn't have the best track record in terms of delivering infrastructure projects. I think that's a reasonable comparison to make, and then of course delivery of stimulus.
CHALMERS: What are you talking about, Anna? What are you talking about?
CALDWELL: At a state and federal level, I think there is a history
CHALMERS: What federal projects haven't we delivered?
CALDWELL: Well, if we go back ten years, there would be, you know, looking into the Cross River Rail, how long did that take? Finally, we're talking about that now. We were talking about that ten years ago in Brisbane.
CHALMERS: Hang on, Anna. I'm sorry, with respect, that's complete rubbish. We delivered what we announced.
CALDWELL: No, I recall Julia Gillard turning up in Brisbane to talk about Cross River Rail ten years ago.
CHALMERS: It was it was the start of the project. Cross River Rail is a Labor project.
CALDWELL: Well, we're still waiting.
CHALMERS: It's being built. You would have seen it. I drive past it all the time, its going to be amazing.
STEFANOVIC: It’s alright if you take ten years to build something. Jim, I just wonder. He's a very straight talker Jim Chalmers, he doesn't buy into all this whole, people say stuff during Budget sells and don't really mean it. For example Jim, you're not going to say that Labor is going to have a surplus in the next 10 years are you?
CHALMERS: Well, if you look at the current projections nobody will. Neither side of politics will. In fact, the Treasury said that there won't be a surplus for 40 years under the current Budget settings that this Government's got.
STEFANOVIC: Hang on. 40 years from now?
CHALMERS: Yeah.
STEFANOVIC: So by my calculation, that'll be 100 years since Labor ever delivered a surplus? So that's what, 1980s to 2080. Jim, that's not what you want to hear when you're going into Budget week. Labor will deliver one in 100 years.
CHALMERS: I'm saying under this Liberal Government there won't be a surplus for 40 years - under their Budget settings, on their own numbers.
STEFANOVIC: Yeah.
CHALMERS: There's a trillion dollars in debt. I think Karl, to be serious about this, I think people understand sometimes you need to borrow, but the government's racked up a trillion dollars and most people are saying what have we actually got to show for that?
STEFANOVIC: But it's also about being fiscally responsible and actually doing the right thing, and paying it back, and getting into surplus, which you haven't done since the 80s. I mean, you don't have a track record, it's almost non-existent?
CHALMERS: The current government is handing down nine deficits, the previous Labor Government handed down six deficits. So if you want to talk about deficits, let's be even-handed about it.
STEFANOVIC: They've been in government longer.
CHALMERS: This is the longest stretch of deficits by a government since the 1920s. So if you want to talk about deficits, you want to talk about debt, the Government had already multiplied the debt even before the pandemic. Now it's a trillion dollars. What have we got to show for that as a country? I think that's what Australians will be asking tomorrow night.
STEFANOVIC: You've made Anna very angry this morning, Jim.
CHALMERS: I didn't mean to. I didn't mean to make Anna angry.
(LAUGHTER)
CALDWELL: I lived through that period, and I've seen it at the state level as well. But on the issue of debt and deficit, I actually think after two years of living through a pandemic, the Government has put its hand in its pockets consistently to help Australians through through that period. I think that the conversation around debt and deficit has shifted slightly.
STEFANOVIC: It has, yeah.
CALDWELL: I think people are slightly more tolerant of it, but at the same time they are looking for that fiscal responsibility.
STEFANOVIC: When will the election be, Jim?
CHALMERS: 14 May I reckon, give or take a week, but 14 May most likely.
STEFANOVIC: Okay. Anna?
CALDWELL: I reckon he'll call it this weekend, maybe May 7th I'd be thinking.
STEFANOVIC: Alright, rev up your engines everyone. It’ll be exciting. Look forward to your Budget Reply too Jim, thank you very much.
CALDWELL: Thank you.
CHALMERS: Thanks Karl, thanks Anna.
ENDS
